Hello!!! Richard Reid, the shoe bomber, got on a plane after 9/11 on Bush's watch! It's not like the guy flew a plane into a building and killed thousands of people.
President Obama has taken responsibility for this lapse in security at a foreign airport. Our last leader never admitted to a failure. To me, Obama is looking STRONG! I know he's going to work hard to improve the situation.
#89451 - 12/30/0907:18 PMRe: For lack of an appropriate place ...
[Re: SH]
jazzwriter
Member
Registered: 11/15/99
Posts: 9562
Loc: Greenville, Miss. USA
Haven't we already been seeing it for years? The difference is the previous administration told us how they need to do this and that to keep America safe, and on those occasions when they actually caught somebody plotting a terrorist act, they patted themselves on the back. "See what a great job we're doing to stop terrorism?" This kook boards a plane in a foreign country, and somehow it's Obama's fault? He says they're dozens more like him, and that's scary? You mean you weren't scared during the 7 years (I'm not counting the year of 9/11) Bush-Cheney told us repeatedly about the threats? Oh, I forgot. Maybe the numerous color-coded threat alerts, in which nothing happened, gave us a false sense of security. We conveniently forgot there are thousands of terrorists seeking or creating opportunities to kill.
_________________________ And when he cut open the shark, there was a leg. - Missy, "Uncle Bob's Leg" (unedited)
#89452 - 12/30/0907:21 PMRe: For lack of an appropriate place ...
[Re: TR808]
DaveS
Member
Registered: 07/04/04
Posts: 1113
Loc: Mishawaka, Indiana
You know I don't think these guys really give a damn what party the president comes from. They just don't like Americans period. I would have to agree that the President has reacted in a strong fashion. There is plenty of people to blame on this one and no doubt there will be a lot more changes in security procedures as there are whenever something like this takes place.
It was not that many years ago that you could go a week without seeing some plane being hijacked. That problem was addressed, admittedly it took some time, but it was addressed. So shall this ongoing problem. Let's face it the war on terror is going to be with us for some time, regardless of who is serving in the White House.
#89453 - 12/30/0908:31 PMRe: For lack of an appropriate place ...
[Re: DaveS]
Kat
Musical Technologist
Member
Registered: 12/24/00
Posts: 4344
Loc: Danbury, Connecticut
The guy had no luggage, no winter coat for Detroit and paid for his flight in cash. The Northwest counter should have flagged the ticket immediately. He should have been taken aside and questioned... by the way he was chattering, he would have collapsed right there.
That's called profiling - and note that it has to do with behavior and actions, not culture, race or religion. That's how it used to be done, back in the days hijackers and "take me to Cuba".
Kudos to the Netherlands. The body image scanners will be up and running by mid January.
Unfortunately, the scanners are needed in every airport. TSA was inspecting the commuter trains into NYC today, all the trains were late. They walked the tracks, looking for things and there were dogs sniffing the luggage. I'm not used to that in suburban CT.
The diaper bomber did something for us.... made us aware again that we are not safe. We need to be aware of this and never let another 9/11 occur.
Here's the thing.... I don't think the bomb maker actually intended for it to work because the terrorists are observing our response.
CNN had an explosives expert detonate 6 grams of the stuff, and it took about 30 seconds for the metal wire attached the fuse to heat up. Then there were flames for about 3 seconds and poof.
The guy was wearing the diaper bomb... and he was obviously not instructed that the front of his trousers were going to catch fire around his zipper. The guy had 80 grams of it.....if you calculate the heat up time, that's 390 seconds (6.5 minutes). He had no clue of how long or how big the flame would have been.
They're watching us for sure - and they do not care about our politics.
Went into NYC today, and I was walking down w 42nd street - on my way to meet my friends. At 6th avenue, I was diverted - and I had no idea what was going on. It was near the part of Times Square where they drop the ball. I just figured it was part of security and then I found out that it was a bomb scare.
Who leaves a van like this in the middle of Times Square?
Updated, 1:21 p.m. | Police officers sounded the all-clear and began reopening streets near Times Square that they had barricaded for nearly two hours in response to a suspiciously parked vehicle. After investigating the vehicle, a white 1992 Dodge van, the police said they discovered nothing harmful inside, only clothing.
“We gained entry to the vehicle and found clothing inside,” in the back of the van, Paul J. Browne, the Police Department’s chief spokesman. “There’s no explosive device. The area is being restored to normal traffic.”
During a bustling late morning in Times Square, as preparations were under way for a rehearsal of the New Year’s Eve ball drop, police shut down several blocks on Seventh Avenue and partly evacuated two buildings. The ball drop rehearsal was delayed as the police directed all pedestrian traffic away from the area.
The police first discovered the white panel truck parked and apparently abandoned in Times Square around 11 a.m. on Wednesday. The truck had tinted windows covered by a tarpaulin, was discovered at Broadway and 42nd Street, near where the annual Times Square New Year’s Eve celebration is set to take place under heavy security provisions.
Officials at first said the van had apparently not been moved for some days.
But Mr. Browne said the vehicle was parked at its location since at least Wednesday morning and that investigators did not think it had been left there for a period of days.
He said there was no indication the van was used as a diversionary tactic by a would-be harm-doer; nor do investigators believe it was there to test the police response to such an event. He said there was a temporary, or paper, registration for the vehicle inside of it. Using that, he said, the police are trying “to identify the owner.”
There were several indications that made the police suspicious. The van had a “bogus” placard in its windshield for a nonexistent New York/New Jersey police entity, Mr. Browne said. The placard said something like, “detectives, crime scene, New York, New Jersey area,” said Mr. Browne, who said he would seek to explain what the placard said more precisely.
Even as Mr. Browne cautioned it might only end up being an illegally parked vehicle, it worried the police enough for the Police Department’s Counterterrorism Bureau to respond, along with officers from the Bomb Squad and Emergency Service Unit. As a precaution, the Bomb Squad technicians used a robot armed with a camera to approach the vehicle, Mr. Browne said.
Shortly after noon, the police directed all pedestrians to the west side of Seventh Avenue and were towing cars that were parked near the van.
Mr. Browne said that two buildings were being at least partially evacuated: 7 Times Square, the Conde Nast building, and 1460 Broadway, the building that is home to Nasdaq.
Coming a day before the New Year’s Eve celebration, the police analysis and fast response resembled a test run for the evening of Dec. 31, when hordes of officers will flood Times Square and an array of human and technological sensors will be in place to detect any wrongdoing.
Mr. Browne said the test run was not intended. “We train,” he said, for all eventualities. “We don’t need this kind of event to cause unnecessary disruption.”
He added: “We’d prefer not to have people create a suspicious condition that we have to disrupt.”
But holiday tourists and office workers were jolted out of their routine the day before New Year’s Eve.
Paul Cicero, an attorney, was in his office at 7 Times Square at about 11 a.m. when the police first asked everyone to move to the west side because of the suspicious vehicle.
He said the police alerted the building occupants with an announcement, adding that “they’ve been giving us periodic updates saying that the police are investigating a suspicious vehicle.”
“They moved us to the west side, and won’t let us out right now,” Mr. Cicero said. “They asked everybody to move from their office, anything other than the west side, to move to the west side.”
He added, “I was very concerned at first. I was one of the people who tried to get out. But I guess it is what it is right now. I felt a lot better once I had some information about what was going on, even though I’d still like to get the hell out of here.”
Mr. Cicero said that workers had congregated in hallways on the west side of the building and that they were “keeping the mood light.”
He said the fresh memory of the attempted terrorism attack on a Detroit-bound jetliner on Friday was adding to the jitters.
“I think everybody’s kind of accepted the fact that we can’t leave until they tell us,” Mr. Cicero said. “I think if it wasn’t New Year’s and it wasn’t Times Square and if everything hadn’t happened in Detroit, this would be a lot easier to swallow, but I think that’s what’s causing a lot of the concern.”
#89454 - 12/30/0909:39 PMRe: For lack of an appropriate place ...
[Re: Kat]
jazzwriter
Member
Registered: 11/15/99
Posts: 9562
Loc: Greenville, Miss. USA
It's funny in a way (funny strange). I don't look for terrorism in my community. An abandoned van would not seem out of place to me. Yet, every day that I use a certain camera on the job, I'm mindful of where I place its carrying bag. It's much more convenient to carry the bag with me instead of leaving it in the car. But when I start shooting, I have to set the bag somewhere. Most people recognize me and are aware of what I'm doing. But there are times when I'm going to be moving around a lot, and might set the bag in a hallway or outside an office, and the thought is always there: "I hope some panicky person who doesn't see me with the camera doesn't call 9-1-1 to report a bomb threat." And you're right, Kat and Dave. They don't care about our politics. Remember: These same people that the GOP want us to believe are being coddled by the Democrats denounced Obama's being awarded the Nobel Price for Peace. They don't like him any more than they liked Bush.
_________________________ And when he cut open the shark, there was a leg. - Missy, "Uncle Bob's Leg" (unedited)
Registered: 09/08/04
Posts: 1846
Loc: Algonquin, IL
Of course they don't care about our politics! They care about our attitude and reaction to their threats and actions. They also prefer we treat these incidents as crimminal/police matters. And since these are just troubled individuals that went off the deep end (like the Fort Hood guy) we need to be sure we provide Miranda warnings and fair trials in case we didn't follow procedure. We need to continue to find ways for the terrorists to like us. The apology tours, closing Gitmo, and exiting Iraq are not enough.
Of course they don't care about our politics! They care about our attitude and reaction to their threats and actions. They also prefer we treat these incidents as crimminal/police matters. And since these are just troubled individuals that went off the deep end (like the Fort Hood guy) we need to be sure we provide Miranda warnings and fair trials in case we didn't follow procedure. We need to continue to find ways for the terrorists to like us. The apology tours, closing Gitmo, and exiting Iraq are not enough.
This is the same old, status quo, blame game rhetoric we have been hearing for years. Frankly, people like Dick Cheney should be quiet on the subject of security because they haven't been effective. They let the founders of Al Quada escape into the mountains. If you ask me, Gitmo is a symbol of a lack of accomplishments in a fight that lacked goals from the start. Pandora's Box was opened on September 11, 2001! Along with the terror, we have hope!
Why do you think countries like Yemen and Pakistan are now fighting all out battles with Al Qaeda? I'm hoping Obama doesn't get caught in a long term fight with people who wish ill will on America, i.e., the Republicans.
Edited by TR808 (12/31/0906:43 AM)
_________________________
"Good music is good no matter what kind of music it is." -- Miles Davis
Registered: 09/08/04
Posts: 1846
Loc: Algonquin, IL
I disagree. The Republicans have ALWAYS embraced a more direct response to terrorism while the Democratic Congress remains the obstacle taking a turn the other cheek attitude.
The Obama administration must stop thinking of al Qaeda and Abdulmutallab as mere criminals. Obama’s blindness to Abdulmutallab’s al Qaeda connections and his insistence on calling him a “suspect” in the “alleged” bombing is the same mindset dictating Obama’s decision to send Khalid Sheikh Mohammed and four other terrorists to New York for a civilian trial in federal court. Hopefully this incident will prod Obama into revisiting that historically bad decision.