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#89596 - 01/12/10 05:26 PM Re: For lack of an appropriate place ... [Re: stevec]
DaveS Offline
Member

Registered: 07/04/04
Posts: 1105
Loc: Mishawaka, Indiana
Well then again there is always Fox.

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#89597 - 01/12/10 06:02 PM Re: For lack of an appropriate place ... [Re: stevec]
SH Offline
Member

Registered: 09/08/04
Posts: 1841
Loc: Algonquin, IL
I find the whole steriod baseball thing amusing. Do I think Maguire is a dirtbag? No doubt! He's been on more cycles than Lance Armstrong. Does he deserve to be in the hall of fame? Sure, why not, I watched him hit the HR's. Just put an asterisk there.

I'll assume all of those steriod-enhanced homers off all those steriod-enhanced pitchers really were hit...until all the owners, administrators and uniformed personnel who prospered from the era return the money. Who are they crapping?

Since baseball tolerated or enabled or encouraged steriod use, the game will have to live with the consequences. Can't have it both ways.

As a sidenote, why does everyone only talk about how steriods affected the "personal records"? What about team wins that led to playoff appearences and world series. That's almost more outrageous.


Edited by SH (01/12/10 06:34 PM)

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#89600 - 01/12/10 08:07 PM Re: For lack of an appropriate place ... [Re: SH]
DaveS Offline
Member

Registered: 07/04/04
Posts: 1105
Loc: Mishawaka, Indiana
Good point, I do have mixed feelings. The league did not have a policy or did not enforce what may have been so on that basis I guess they are entitled. Though I have a feeling that the guys who actually vote will not feel the same way. They knew the effect of the drugs and that is why they took them. So they cheated, is that really the guys we want in the hall? The thing has always made me wonder the most was why these guys? I mean Bonds, Sosa, McGuire, A-Rod were all good players before they started using so why begin at all. You would think the big users would have been the marginal players looking for an edge. Then again maybe it was just the good guys who a lot better who got caught.

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#89604 - 01/13/10 06:56 AM Re: For lack of an appropriate place ... [Re: DaveS]
jazzwriter Offline
Member

Registered: 11/15/99
Posts: 9495
Loc: Greenville, Miss. USA
Temptation.
Think about when you were in school. A big test is coming up. You know most of the material and were confident that you'd pass. Hours before the exam, you find that some of your classmates have a cheat sheet that covers material that you're a little unsure of. You tell yourself you don't need it because you know enough to pass that portion of the test. When the time comes, you see an opportunity. The teacher's not looking. Everyone sitting around you has used or intends to use the cheat sheet that's right there for you to grab.
Do you let it go on to the next person?
Or do you say to yourself, "Why not?" You could get an A instead of a B - a perfect score instead of a 90.
Not to make excuses for anyone, but the widespread belief is that an overwhelming majority of MLB players from the late 1980s until around 2004 used a performance enhancer at one time or another. The ones who weren't using were isolated. So the superstars saw what it was doing for the average guys, and they saw how their numbers - and their teams' wins - were affected by the widespread use. And since baseball executives chose to ignore the problem, Bonds, McGwire and Sosa got swept up in it.
_________________________
And when he cut open the shark, there was a leg.
- Missy, "Uncle Bob's Leg" (unedited)

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#89611 - 01/13/10 11:10 AM Re: For lack of an appropriate place ... [Re: jazzwriter]
DaveS Offline
Member

Registered: 07/04/04
Posts: 1105
Loc: Mishawaka, Indiana
I understand the temptation among average to slightly better then average players. My playing days predate the steroids problem by a couple of centuries, but I would have to admit there were times when I wanted to find that extra burst of speed that our top wide receiver had or a little more strength to make that push past the middle of the line. Would I have used if they had been available? I would like to say no, but given a chance to go to Division I instead of a Division II or III, well it does make one wonder. Maybe it is not such a black and white question and answer.

But why the likes of Barry Bonds. He is so good anyway why the need for something extra? Of course I don't or didn't have his skill so again not so simple. Then there is the time line for many of these guys. Using at the end of their playing days. To extend it all a season or two more? Maybe it is just too hard to give up that life. My rather limited playing time, came to and end quickly with a broken neck. I had no choice, well I could play...assuming anyone would actually have let me...and taken the chance of dying or I could go to the broadcast booth and get my thrills watching others. Easy choice for me, maybe not so easy for all these guys. I just wish they would all just come clean and admit they did it, and move on and help the sport get itself cleaned up.

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#89614 - 01/13/10 12:43 PM Re: For lack of an appropriate place ... [Re: DaveS]
jazzwriter Offline
Member

Registered: 11/15/99
Posts: 9495
Loc: Greenville, Miss. USA
I think for Bonds, it was a case of keeping up with the Joneses.
His raw talent was on par with the best of the best, yet McGwire and Sosa separated from him in the home run department.
_________________________
And when he cut open the shark, there was a leg.
- Missy, "Uncle Bob's Leg" (unedited)

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#89619 - 01/13/10 05:44 PM Re: For lack of an appropriate place ... [Re: jazzwriter]
DaveS Offline
Member

Registered: 07/04/04
Posts: 1105
Loc: Mishawaka, Indiana
Yeah after thinking about that probably was the case with most of the aging top stars. I, of course was never in that area of being super star status. That does make it difficult to feel what must be going on in their heads dealing the loss of skill and status. Though I at my age sort of get the idea of how that must feel, as the business world I work in goes for younger and younger talent. Not much I can do about it in my world, but can see where that temptation to hold on would take place.

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#90130 - 03/29/10 01:20 PM Re: For lack of an appropriate place ... [Re: DaveS]
TR808 Offline
Member

Registered: 07/21/09
Posts: 1020
Someone said that "we must fight them there, so we don't have to fight them here"! What do you do when they are already here? The Hutarees remind me of Al Qaida!

Who are the Christian militia 'Hutarees' and why was the FBI targeting them?
_________________________
"Good music is good no matter what kind of music it is." -- Miles Davis

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#90146 - 03/31/10 09:03 PM Re: For lack of an appropriate place ... [Re: SH]
jazzwriter Offline
Member

Registered: 11/15/99
Posts: 9495
Loc: Greenville, Miss. USA
They're digging in again:
Oil drilling panned criticized

Isn't some increase in domestic oil production better than none?
_________________________
And when he cut open the shark, there was a leg.
- Missy, "Uncle Bob's Leg" (unedited)

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#90149 - 04/01/10 04:00 AM Re: For lack of an appropriate place ... [Re: jazzwriter]
TR808 Offline
Member

Registered: 07/21/09
Posts: 1020
It's the typical digs from the same people! As usual, they bring the criticism without mentioning a solution. What is their plan for energy independence? Along the way, these guys developed the notion that their job was to serve a party! Politicians like John Boehner see oil drilling as yet another opportunity to say 'no' and not a chance to solve a problem.
_________________________
"Good music is good no matter what kind of music it is." -- Miles Davis

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