|
|
|
1
|
2
|
3
|
4
|
5
|
|
6
|
7
|
8
|
9
|
10
|
11
|
12
|
|
13
|
14
|
15
|
16
|
17
|
18
|
19
|
|
20
|
21
|
22
|
23
|
24
|
25
|
26
|
|
27
|
28
|
29
|
30
|
31
|
|
|
|
|
#87677 - 08/17/09 03:03 PM
Re: HEALTH CARE 2009
[Re: TR808]
|
Member
Registered: 09/08/04
Posts: 1846
Loc: Algonquin, IL
|
Ars...stay off those flaming far left blogs. The info is worthless. It is common knowledge that if you have a runny nose or a cough, Canada's system works well but if you have anything more serious wrong good luck. The 91% polled that liked their healthcare were kids in their 20's that have no health problems. http://www.winnipegsun.com/news/columnists/tom_brodbeck/2009/08/14/10458756-sun.html
Edited by SH (08/17/09 03:05 PM)
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#87678 - 08/17/09 04:49 PM
Re: HEALTH CARE 2009
[Re: SH]
|
Musical Technologist
Member
Registered: 12/24/00
Posts: 4344
Loc: Danbury, Connecticut
|
Moderator here....
Some folks don't appear that they can handle an opposing or differing point of view. I urge anyone who feels upset or irritated to take a break from posting.
I really do not want to lock this thread.... so please take a time out if something's really bugging you.
Thanks,
_________________________
I've Got Jazz...Do You?
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#87680 - 08/17/09 06:05 PM
Re: HEALTH CARE 2009
[Re: SH]
|
Member
Registered: 07/21/09
Posts: 1088
|
“I've said that the Canadian model works for Canada ... It would not work for the United States, in part simply because we've evolved differently. We have a employer-based system and a private-based health care system that stands side-by-side with Medicare and Medicaid and our Veterans Administration health care system. And so, we've got to develop a uniquely American approach to this problem.” -- President Obama Any health reform in this country is not going to be a perfect panacea. I'm sure the British, Canadians, and French all have problems with their universal health care. Your argument's premise is unsound. Our government is not advocating a health care system like the one in Canada. Sure, a Canadian might have to wait awhile to get a diagnostic but that's a lot better than waiting to die from an undetected and undiagnosed but curable disease if detected early. Because many Americans are uninsured, they don't have access to diagnostic equipment. As far as left and right is concern, facts are facts. The advocates for the status quo are not looking for solutions. They are just pointing their fingers at problems and saying look at the boogeyman over there. http://www2.med.umich.edu/prmc/media/newsroom/details.cfm?ID=931
Edited by TR808 (08/17/09 06:11 PM)
_________________________
"Good music is good no matter what kind of music it is." -- Miles Davis
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#87681 - 08/17/09 06:39 PM
Re: HEALTH CARE 2009
[Re: TR808]
|
Member
Registered: 09/08/04
Posts: 1846
Loc: Algonquin, IL
|
I would say the boogeyman or fear factor with the whole thing comes from a distrust of the administration. We just had a massive stimulus bill passed which no one read and it had no strings attached and no one knows where the money went. Exact same thing with the massive cap & trade bill that no one in Congress read. Now you have an 1,100 page healthcare bill that no one has read yet plus Mr. Obama has done a poor job "selling" it. No one understands it including himself and this is not a good thing. No one in Congress is willing to use this healthcare option for themselves and this is not a good thing. People are fearful because they see a need for some reform, not an 1,100 page overhaul. It sure would be nice to have a few hundred billion of that stimulus money back to help with those that are un-insured.
Edited by SH (08/17/09 06:44 PM)
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#87684 - 08/17/09 08:26 PM
Re: HEALTH CARE 2009
[Re: SH]
|
Member
Registered: 11/15/99
Posts: 9559
Loc: Greenville, Miss. USA
|
Point of order: In my area, millions in stimulus money have gone to rebuild or upgrade highways. It could be argued that some of these transportation projects would have been funded anyway, but under another name. Something I don't think helps anything at all, though, is a program coordinated by a non-profit, rural service for poor people is a program that put young college students (and a few recent graduates) to work at various businesses, mostly getting OJT for fields they plan to pursue. The stimulus funds paid their salaries for a varying number of days (2-4 months, depending on the job). Very questionable in terms of getting the economy going, but it is a real expenditure that I can point to and say, yeah, I saw some of the stimulus money at work.
_________________________
And when he cut open the shark, there was a leg. - Missy, "Uncle Bob's Leg" (unedited)
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#87686 - 08/17/09 09:19 PM
Re: HEALTH CARE 2009
[Re: TR808]
|
Member
Registered: 01/19/99
Posts: 2496
Loc: Anaheim Ca USA
|
There has to be a solution, but it is gonna be tough, eh??
It does seem that the doomsday and naysayers are successful....nothing that is worth anything is going to be passed.
Yay REPUBS!!!
Yay did it!!
_________________________
"Jazz-since it`s inception-has been fusion"-Jay Beckenstein
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#87690 - 08/18/09 04:48 AM
Re: HEALTH CARE 2009
[Re: SH]
|
Musical Technologist
Member
Registered: 12/24/00
Posts: 4344
Loc: Danbury, Connecticut
|
we talked about the whole foods op-ed piece at work yesterday.
If the citizens could solve the problem! Much of what is in the whole foods piece is what I tried to explain last week: tort reform, transparency of benefits and underwriting, ability to carry your policy across state lines, insurance reform.
Basically what we need is efficiency and cost savings in the private plans and major medical for the uninsured.
_________________________
I've Got Jazz...Do You?
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#87691 - 08/18/09 06:22 AM
Re: HEALTH CARE 2009
[Re: SH]
|
Member
Registered: 07/21/09
Posts: 1088
|
Mackey's Response: "The WSJ Put Words in My Mouth" http://www2.wholefoodsmarket.com/blogs/jmackey/Someone is lying--Mackey or the WSJ? Capitalism does a good job of spending other people's money too as evidenced by recent US history. "In answer to President Obama’s invitation to all Americans to put forward constructive ideas for reforming our health care system, I wrote this Op/Ed piece called simply “Health Care Reform.” An editor at the Journal rewrote the headline to call it “Whole Foods Alternative to Obamacare,” which led to antagonistic feelings by many. That was not my intention - in fact, I do not mention the President at all in this piece."--John MacKey
Edited by TR808 (08/18/09 07:22 AM)
_________________________
"Good music is good no matter what kind of music it is." -- Miles Davis
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#87692 - 08/18/09 07:01 AM
Re: HEALTH CARE 2009
[Re: TR808]
|
Musical Technologist
Member
Registered: 12/24/00
Posts: 4344
Loc: Danbury, Connecticut
|
No one is lying. It's called editing. Mackey simply states that the WSJ put their own title on the piece - the Whole Foods name in the title of the Op-Ed attracted more readers. He submits his original piece as a blog. And we all know that anything submitted to a newspaper - is subject to their editing. Those are the terms and conditions for writing a letter to the editor. The Whole Foods Alternative to ObamaCareEight things we can do to improve health care without adding to the deficit. OR Health Care ReformThe editors appear to have worked the most on this section: Many promoters of health care reform believe that people have an intrinsic ethical right to health care-to universal and equal access to doctors, medicines, and hospitals. While all of us can empathize with those who are sick, how can we say that all people have any more of an intrinsic right to health care than they have an intrinsic right to food, clothing, owning their own homes, a car or a personal computer? Health care is a service which we all need at some point in our lives, but just like food, clothing, and shelter it is best provided through voluntary and mutually-beneficial market exchanges rather than through government mandates. A careful reading of both The Declaration of Independence and the Constitution will not reveal any intrinsic right to health care, food or shelter, because there isn’t any. This “right” has never existed in America.
Even in countries such as Canada and the U.K., there is no intrinsic right to health care. Rather, citizens in these countries are told by governmental bureaucrats what health care treatments and medicines they are eligible to receive and when they can receive them. All countries with socialized medicine ration health care by forcing their citizens to wait in lines to receive scarce and expensive treatments. Although Canada has a population smaller than California, 830,000 Canadians are waiting to be admitted to a hospital or to get treatment. In England, the waiting list is 1.8 million citizens. At Whole Foods we allow our team members to vote on what benefits they most want the company to fund on their behalf. Our Canadian and British team members express their benefit preferences very clearly-they want supplemental health care more than additional paid time off, larger donations to their retirement plans, or greater food discounts; they want health care dollars that they can control and spend themselves without permission from their governments. Why would they want such additional health care benefit dollars to spend if they already have an “intrinsic right to health care”? The answer is clear-no such right truly exists in either Canada or the U.K.-or in any other country.
Rather than increase governmental spending and control, what we need to do is address the root causes of disease and poor health. This begins with the realization that every American adult is responsible for their own health. Unfortunately many of our health care problems are self-inflicted with over 2/3 of Americans now overweight and 1/3 obese. Most of the diseases which are both killing us and making health care so expensive-heart disease, cancer, stroke, diabetes, and obesity, which account for about 70% of all health care spending, are mostly preventable through proper diet, exercise, not smoking, minimal or no alcohol consumption, and other healthy lifestyle choices.
Over the past two decades, breakthrough scientific research by Colin Campbell, as documented in his book The China Study, and clinical medical experiences by many doctors including Dean Ornish, Caldwell Esselstyn, John McDougall, Joel Fuhrman, and Neal Barnard have shown that a diet consisting of whole foods which are plant-based, nutrient dense, and low-fat will help prevent and often reverse most of the degenerative diseases that are killing us, and becoming more and more expensive to treat through drugs and surgery. We should be able to live healthy and largely disease free lives until we are well into our 90’s and even past 100 years of age.
Health care reform in America is very important. Whatever reforms are enacted it is essential that they be financially responsible and that we have the freedom to choose our own doctors and the health care services that best suit our own unique set of lifestyle choices. We are responsible for our own lives and our own health. We should take that responsibility very seriously and use our freedom to make wise lifestyle choices that will protect our health. Doing so will enrich our personal lives and will help create a vibrant and sustainable American society. Vs how it appeared in the WSJ. Many promoters of health-care reform believe that people have an intrinsic ethical right to health care—to equal access to doctors, medicines and hospitals. While all of us empathize with those who are sick, how can we say that all people have more of an intrinsic right to health care than they have to food or shelter?
Health care is a service that we all need, but just like food and shelter it is best provided through voluntary and mutually beneficial market exchanges. A careful reading of both the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution will not reveal any intrinsic right to health care, food or shelter. That's because there isn't any. This "right" has never existed in America
Even in countries like Canada and the U.K., there is no intrinsic right to health care. Rather, citizens in these countries are told by government bureaucrats what health-care treatments they are eligible to receive and when they can receive them. All countries with socialized medicine ration health care by forcing their citizens to wait in lines to receive scarce treatments.
Although Canada has a population smaller than California, 830,000 Canadians are currently waiting to be admitted to a hospital or to get treatment, according to a report last month in Investor's Business Daily. In England, the waiting list is 1.8 million.
At Whole Foods we allow our team members to vote on what benefits they most want the company to fund. Our Canadian and British employees express their benefit preferences very clearly—they want supplemental health-care dollars that they can control and spend themselves without permission from their governments. Why would they want such additional health-care benefit dollars if they already have an "intrinsic right to health care"? The answer is clear—no such right truly exists in either Canada or the U.K.—or in any other country.
Rather than increase government spending and control, we need to address the root causes of poor health. This begins with the realization that every American adult is responsible for his or her own health.
Unfortunately many of our health-care problems are self-inflicted: two-thirds of Americans are now overweight and one-third are obese. Most of the diseases that kill us and account for about 70% of all health-care spending—heart disease, cancer, stroke, diabetes and obesity—are mostly preventable through proper diet, exercise, not smoking, minimal alcohol consumption and other healthy lifestyle choices.
Recent scientific and medical evidence shows that a diet consisting of foods that are plant-based, nutrient dense and low-fat will help prevent and often reverse most degenerative diseases that kill us and are expensive to treat. We should be able to live largely disease-free lives until we are well into our 90s and even past 100 years of age.
Health-care reform is very important. Whatever reforms are enacted it is essential that they be financially responsible, and that we have the freedom to choose doctors and the health-care services that best suit our own unique set of lifestyle choices. We are all responsible for our own lives and our own health. We should take that responsibility very seriously and use our freedom to make wise lifestyle choices that will protect our health. Doing so will enrich our lives and will help create a vibrant and sustainable American society.
_________________________
I've Got Jazz...Do You?
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|