Just wondering what all you musicians think about Kenny G's hit
"Sax-a-loco".

Sounds a lot different than what I've been used to hearing from him over the years -- do you think this'll go down as one of those hits that bands play in the genre, like Winelight, Morning Dance, etctera?

ROTFLMAO.

About as much of chance of that happening as a snowball surviving in hell.

Kenny G is the smooth jazz equivalent of my friend, Michael Bolton. Both are favorite targets and examples of everything that ended a genre.

Hmm -- a stronger and much more negative reaction than I anticipated.

Although I know people have made fun of him over the years -- and partly his own fault (like overdubbing himself over Louis Armstrong's "What a Wonderful World" and then having to donate all the proceeds to charity as a possible 'back-pedal'), and also playing sharp a lot, (say the sax players I know) -- I was actually pretty impressed with the Sax-a-Loco tune -- it sounds like a classic. But not in the same genre as Morning Dance, Curves etcetera -- more like something that would belong on a CD beside older hits like Herbie Hancock's Cantaloupe Island.

He also set some records, such as the 45 minute note-holding technique he brought to our consciousness (I think someone else invented it, but he was the first to bring it to my awareness). The first time I heard him do it on his Live album it was a real sticker-outer that I played to a number of people. And they were all impressed with the emotion he generated by holding the note, and actually getting louder and stronger the longer he held it.

Not that I expect the world to agree -- but one of my die hard sax friends believes he deserves some respect -- he's one of the few instrumentalists to have broken into mainstream radio back in the 80's, like Santana did on the strength of his tone and musical ideas, although probably to a lesser extent. (And to his credit, Kenny did it without having to hook up with a vocalist like Santana did with Rob Thomas, Michelle Branch etcetera).

I'm not sure how these negative attitudes develop about artists who shoot to fame - for some, like Britney Spears it's the way they live their lives, but with Kenny G, Michael Bolton, and Celine Dion I don't understand it. I'm not a huge fan of Kenny G like I am other artists by the way -- but I do appreciate some of his work (like his Live album which I own on cassette tape). And I also appreciate his place in musical history with some of the achievements above.

(He just came out with his own line of saxophone accessories by the way, as a side-piece).

we have had several threads thru the years which discussed the G Man and prevailing attitudes about his music. I have always remained conservative and refrained from bashing him.

Kenny G was an original Rippington and has really veered far away from that beginning. These days, he's all about the $$$ and has not been very gracious towards his fans.

I don't think that there's much he can do to improve his standing with jazz fans in general .... but that's a discussion that has also been discussed various times in our contemporary jazz forum.

But I do firmly believe that none of his music will ever be considered a classic in the same way that Grover's music is a classic.

You can judge for yourself.... here's Pat Metheny's famous rant about Kenny G:

http://www.jazzguitar.com/features/kennyg.html

And Pat's response a couple of days later:

http://www.jazzguitar.com/features/kennyg2.html

I've read all this before -- and many times -- my question was about the song on its own merits -- not specifically the artist.

What prompted the question was the thought occurred to me many times as I heard it on the radio, and I'm still interested in a musician's perspective on the song, hence the placement in this section. And as a corollory, I feel there are certain artists who get beat up in spite of touching the hearts of the public -- like the Bee Gees did after the incredibly successful Saturday Night Fever...


But back to Sax-a-loco -- I wouldn't hesitate to put the song into a repertoire I had to play at some point; I think he did a good job on the song. It would be interesting to see if the rest of the band would be willing to separate the message from the messenger.

I'm not saying the tune isn't good.

You asked if it would go down in history ... as comparable to Winelight.... my opinion is not a question of separating the message from the messenger.

It can't be done in Kenny G's case.... he's already historic for helping BA launch smooth jazz. The jazz police, primarily made up of straight ahead types.... would never consider the G Man to be a peer of Grover's.

The thing to remember is that for a tune to have impact - it has to affect a great deal of people. Winelight did that, Morning Dance did that. Musicians - whether they embraced the sound or not - did not affect the impact. And yes, both Grover and Spyro have gigging and amateur musicians in the ranks of their fans.

Having a so called smooth jazz hit in 2008 - is barely a blip in history. There are only about a half dozen FM stations left - and BA controls them. The airplay is not there for the G Man's tune to have significant impact - and maybe the dwindling airplay is a reason why he has been rude and snappish towards his fans.

While I agree that Kenny G will never be considered a peer to Grover or many other contempo jazz artists, I truly believe the man to be capable of playing jazz music convincingly but chooses not to. He's playing what he loves to play. And this playing 'sharp' thing really annoys me! Apparently millions of listeners couldn't care less and neither do I. And unless one has perfect pitch, who actually hears it?? Before Pat Metheny even mentioned it, I never even gave it much thought!! And while his music will not be compared to Grover's catalog, I do think he's written some tunes that will replayed as much as Grover's tunes simply because they are good tunes. A good song is a good song, IMO. I will admit to hating his 'vibrato' though! LOL!

P.S. I never saw the problem with him doing the duet over Louis Armstrong's song. Natalie Cole did it (yeah, I know it's her father) as did a few other artists! What's the big deal?? Folks really need to lighten up!

"I do think he's written some tunes that will replayed as much as Grover's tunes simply because they are good tunes."

My thoughts exactly....

on the basis of a few hummable tunes from Songbird circa 1988 or 1989.... we can ignore that he plays out of tune?

Yes, I hear it.... I didn't need Metheny to point it out. Many soprano players play sharp.... which is why I think that in the wrong hands, the instrument sounds like a water fowl!

I don't care about the Louis Armstrong thing at all. Nor have I ever bashed the G-Man (do a search). It's usually me reminding other boarders that G is a poster child for bashing.

Sorry, I just don't think that he is in a league with Grover or guys like David Sanborn or Gerald Albright. Yeah, G has sold a lot of CDs.... but that doesn't mean he's in their league.

If you're asking whether any of his tunes will become standards in a fakebook.... just remember "Celebration" and "Joy to the World" (3 Dog Night) are also standards.

Posted by DWBass:

"He's playing what he loves to play. And this playing 'sharp' thing really annoys me! Apparently millions of listeners couldn't care less and neither do I. And unless one has perfect pitch, who actually hears it?? Before Pat Metheny even mentioned it, I never even gave it much thought!!"

DWBass: I don't have issues with it either because I couldn't hear it. I still remember the reaction of my girlfriend when I played the live album to her -- she felt how he managed to connect with the audience at many different places on that release. The pitch problem wasn't an issue...

I'm prepared to forgive and forget for all the ways these artists fall out of favor, or tarnish their image to the public, even though none of it was really an issue for me either. Some of them come back, like the Beatles did after the "More Popular than Jesus" comment and their snubbing of the queen in the Phillipines.

I like what Pat Metheny said in his follow-up to his remarks about Kenny:

"...it is a little alarming to me to see that my little rant on this topic seems to have generated such a relatively huge response. it makes me feel that in this day and age, even within the "jazz community", controversy, especially PUBLIC controversy, has the chance to "win" over musical substance, even in terms of what gets discussed."

So, on that note, back to the music....

I'm curious about the other tunes on G-man's new CD -- they are all original and collaborations from what I read on his site, and in a different vein than what he's done in the past -- who knows, he may garner some new respect if he can pump out good tunes like Sax-a-Loco consistently.

In any case, I think he did a good job on Sax-a-Loco and find it encouraging you think so too. After listening to the CD samples on Amazon, there are a couple other upbeat tunes that sounded memorable.