Has anyone else been disappointed with all the cover songs being released as singles lately. Fattburger released yet another Santana cover as their recent single. The Urban Knights will release a cover as the first single from their new CD, and today I found out that Candy Dulfer is also releasing a cover version as her next single. I love this genre, and I feel that these artists are talented enough in their own compositions. Too many cover versions waters down the genre in my opinion...what do you think ??? By the way..."other" music I've been listening to... some of the later releases by the British pop band Talk Talk. They became really jazzy and experimental towards the end of their career. Also a new band Elbow from the UK, and the new Radiohead CD. Bye =)

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Robert McLain

hello newbie!
saw radiohead in Mountain View last night - brilliant!
As far as covers, two things:
1. easy airplay (that description is very broad)
2. pure laziness, which pretty much sums up the entire new Fattburger CD.

My opinion....

Covers are really nothing new in any music form, we even have had country covers of r7b tunes so that much of it is no big deal. But I agree with the Count if you do not give it a twist of your own. When I saw that Fattburger was going to do another Santana cover, I was not dissapointed that they did it, only by the way they did it. They could have done something really special with an extended version of the tune using all band members not just that rather weak guitar solo.

BTW Tony enjoyed your cover of the M Jackson tune on the second cd, but still prefer the orginal tunes "4th Avenue" and "Never Never Land". Hey when does the new Windell come out?

Since the primary criteria for evaluating music tests is familiarity in order to get airplay artists are really encouraged to record covers. They test better over a longer period of time because they are automatically familiar. A lot of songs chart and then drop off the face of the earth in a few months because other songs outperform them on a music test, and the songs that usually outperform them are vocals and covers. The more longevity a song has, the more visibility the artist has so covers are very effective in maintaing airplay, especially when it is time to move the song into a library category. As someone said in a trade mag: "Smooth Jazz Radio loves a cover". Most of the major market stations are moving twoard 4-5 crossover vocals and 2 covers an hour so with the amount of available slots for original music declining youll hear/see more covers. And more Tribute CDs. So pleeease..if an artist you like puts out a CD that is not cover intensive or vocal intensive it means someone in their camp really went out on a limb so support them, buy it, turn other people on to it etc. Street buzz sells more product than radio to people under 25. It's time to take their lead because if there is a demand the supply will begin to exist.

I was encouraged to do a cover on my CD by a few folks who consult with B.A. - they said, hey - do a Michael Jackson over, make it funky. This is what radio said: "Nice tune, too funky for our tastes." Although, Art Good did play that track on JazzTrax, I will only put covers of tunes that I enjoy - not for radio reference. We canned the whole Dido idea, because you can't make a great thing better - and I (as well as many other Fatt artists) need to rise above the 'easy' occasion and create some wild music.
The next Windle CD is slated for December, maybe Feb -

Covers are alright if:
1. They are done well, and in the artists own way, ie: with a twist and not cheesy or a total rehash of what's already been done with the song

AND

2. If the song was a really good one to begin with and merits being re-done, period!

I'm with Tony....don't be lazy people, do something original and different ( Tony, are you kidding me, your Michael Jackson re-make, too funky? Hello....who are these people, anyhow?)

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Anita Bonita

Well I just bought the "Casino Lights'99" DVD and there are 2 covers in particular that were done tastefully and with a funky twist. "Always There" and "Westchester Lady"!! Good Lawd, talk about groove!!! I recommend it highly! Chuck Loeb did a nice version of "Rock With You". Shakatak does a couple of nice covers too of "Lovely Day" and "Low Down". If done right, I don't mind.

Ah David, you mentioned Shakatak....I love their music, man! How cool is that?

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Anita Bonita

I know that covers have been around for ages, and I don't dispute their seeming popularity among casual fans, and especially with music directors. It's unfortunate for the musician who spends months producing a new album with maybe 12 tracks on it...one cover and 11 originals...and the record company selects the cover song as the one they ride on. When I heard that keyboardist Brian Simpson was involved in a new "supergroup" called Rhythm Logic, I was very interested because I love his style, and his compositions. Then I bought the album and saw that they cover 3 very well known songs (2 of which are classics...I.G.Y. by Donald ***en and Fantasy by E.W.F.) and I was a bit let down. There was so much more that could have come from the talents involved in this album. I rarely listen to that album anymore and opt for Mr. Simpson's solo recordings instead. But a complete opposite was Jeff Kashiwa's recent album "Another Door Opens". This is a great album that seems to get better every time I listen...and not a cover song among them. Three cheers for great original songwriting!!! Yeah! Again...I don't hate covers, but when I go to the supermarket and I hear "How Deep is Your Love" by Chris Standring...I just wish that other people listening would know how talented he really is in his own songs.

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Robert McLain

If not for covers, it's possible I might never have heard of Maynard Ferguson, the one artist more so than any other responsible for my falling in love with jazz.
In 1977, he released covers of Gonna Fly Now and the theme from Star Wars. I hadn't even seen Star Wars, but I loved what he did with that music, and several others. Between Maynard's and Jay Chattaway's arrangements, covers didn't sound like covers so much as almost entirely new tunes.
There are some covers that don't do that. Fattburger's "Everybody Wants to Rule the World" comes to mind. Don't get me wrong; I like it, but it sounds too much like Tears for Fears to be taken seriously.

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Woody
jazzwriter23@yahoo.com

I don't really consider those two M.F. songs covers in the sense of the annoying aspect of covers, which is lite instrumental versions of pop/easy listening hits that have already been overplayed in A/C radio.
Just got the new Urban Knights "single"..its a cover. But not of a Lite song..its "High Heel Sneakers", a song that only folks in the oldies station/smooth jazz demographics will remember anyway, and they do quite a funky and energized version if it. Will be interesting to see if it gets decent airplay because it is not relaxation music.

That is a unique aspect of Maynards music. I, along with most of you, don't care for covers that sound too much like the originals. But the songs Maynard got ahold of just explode in the big band/jazz set up. How about what he did with Birdland and MacArthur Park. Incredible!!

From what I've read the big bands of old many times took an established song, did a new arrangement of it, and gave us a classic . . . ie Sing, Sing, Sing, and Little Brown Jug.

Hard to think of any covers that have been done recently that have made me forget the original though!

Steve

I think the difference lies in whether the 'cover' is a tribute or a blatant try at getting radio airplay. Most giging jazz groups play 'standards' which are covers to the highest degree - but when you do a Santana song that sounds like a Lever 2000 ad, or if you cover a classic like 'Grazin in the Grass,' there is a difference. Bands ala Fattburger are the U2's or Pearl Jam's of the smooth jazz arena - they should be breaking the mold rather than being whimps. One of their first albums "Good News" is a classic. If anyone could get away with original kick-azz material, they could. But nooooo, they have to stick with their "Evil Ways.'
Ask me when was the last time I listened to smooth jazz radio...

I check in on the stations that are streaming or posting their playlists every once in a while just to keep up..and zap in on WLOQ when I am in Orlando but usually zap right out like I do with any other station that is playling a song I am not interested in. It reminds me of why I am in top 40/AC. That and the fact that my station was #1 in the last trends
Except for Tony/Count, who gets promos, most of you are lucky enough to not be aware of the amount of subpar, bland, generic instrumental music that is being released right now. Its a product glut and most of it fades into oblivion with minimal promotion and very little exposure. Of couse a parallel situation exists in modern rock/alternative, where any 4 people with instruments, a computer, and a lot of angst can put out their own CD. (if any of you are in the Toledo area and have heard of a band called My Summer Love you know what i am talking about )
My alltime worse cover experience has got to be when Urban Knights covered Sun Goddess. Which was technically Ramsey Lewis redoing his own song, and one of my all time favorite songs in any genre. The new version basically pulled all the energy, spirit and momentum out of the song to make it palatable for radio. I called it "Sun Goddess needs Geritol"..there was a smoothed out version of another of my all time faves, "Always There", that was almost as agonizing too. I was extremely apprehensive about Marc Antoine hooking up with Paul Brown to cover "Mas Que Nada" but it isn't that bad, its not Brasil 66 and is nowhere near as wonderful as Al Jarreaus version, but they did a decent job of making it radio friendly without totally neutering it.

[This message has been edited by Shannon West (edited July 04, 2001).]

Yeah, covers are a volatile issue- you want people to hear your music, but it's like selling out your originality to do it. Double edged sword.......
My favorite "worst" cover is the Rippington's "While my guitar gently weeps"- although I have to laugh every time I hear it, maybe they meant to be campy on that one......
My favorite Best cover is also the Ripps, on "Backstabbers", partly because it's a no vocals cover, and it rocks- another good cover is Eric Marienthal's "Mercy Mercy Mercy" from his Walking Tall CD- actually used the original guy's intro to the tune (my mind went blank, is it Adderly?)
Yet another decent cover (I'm sure this one will stir things up) was Larry Carlton's of the Doobie Brothers "Minute by Minute" followed by the oh-so-lame "Tequila"...fingernails on chalkboard there!
Enough rambling, I guess-
Tony Y


[This message has been edited by bassix (edited July 05, 2001).]

Check out Kim Pensyl's version of 'Minute By Minute'! Funky! Or Bob Baldwin's cover of 'Funkin' For Jamaica'! I found, in a bargain bin somewhere, a cd by a saxophonist named Mike Stevens and he does a nice cover of Sting's 'Roxanne'. Jeff Linsky does a nice cover of Chaka Khan's 'Through The Fire'.

Welcome Abboard Robert!!!!!

I have a band called "Heliopolis" and we play covers from Spyro Gyra, Rippingtons, Gato Barbieri, Chick Corea and many more. I think that playing covers is not an issue. But how youn play them is!!!!

Eril.

Hello Eril...
Nice to hear from you, and I am happy that you can enjoy what you do musically. Some covers are certainly better than others, and everyone has their favorites...but when I hear an original tune that really stands apart from the playlist, that is what keeps me buying the albums and going to the shows.
There are many classic albums out there that don't contain any covers, so we know it can be done. Good luck Eril !

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Robert McLain

Ah Shannon, Sergio Mendes and Brazil 66! That is another Latin Jazz group my mom used to play for us, other than Herb Alpert and the Tijuana Jazz....loved that stuff, so hot!

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Anita Bonita

your MOM used to play for you???????
I used to lip synch their songs singing into a hairbrush and dancing around like a dork in my room when I was in high school...but in the school talent shows I sang cheerful stuff. Like Marianne Faithful.

I had a chance to see Sergio and the gang when I was in the Army, think it was 68 and what a performance. The were so tight and the two female vocalists sounded almost as one. I had most of their stuff on LP at one time but they all went somewhere during a series of moves in the 70's. Still have the greatest hits cd. Talk about a band that could do a cover but give it a new sound. You know they may have been the first band to really give jazz a pop sound. The birth of contemporary jazz?

Hmm, that must be a different Tequila.
The one I'm familiar with was on Larry Carlton's 1983 Friends album and featured Al Jarreau on scat.
I liked that one better than the original Tequila because of Al's influence and the sax solo. It's not as lively, but there's something really cool about it, kinda of makes me long for the days when I could kick back and soak up a sunrise. Know whut I mean, Vern?

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Woody
jazzwriter23@yahoo.com

[This message has been edited by jazzwriter (edited July 09, 2001).]

Well Shannon, now i don't feel that bad. I thought i was the only kid singing to a hair brush!!!!!!!! LOL!!!!!!!!

Eril.

Eril and Shannon....we could be the "Hairbrush Trio!" LOL! I used to do that ,too and yes, Shannon, my mother...she and one of her sisters both married Latin men, my mom and Mexican and one of her sisters, a Puerto Rican ( yo,Eril!) so their husband's love of Latin music rubbed off on them! My mom is also where I heard Antonio Carlos Jobim first! I love the Portugeuse version of "The Girl From Ipanema" the best, even though I can't understand the lyrics that way. I think the Portuguese language sounds beautiful sung, like when Nascimeiento sings his stuff!

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Anita Bonita

What's the date today?

I saw a thread that led to HBH and Greg talking about artists doing covers so; I thought I'd pull up this puppy nearly 6 years after. Check out DW @ #173...

Having said that, I enjoy Peter White's compilation of covers in his latest project "Playin Favorites"; it's just what it says. He's playing his favorites....and I really dig what he did with Grover's "Mr. Magic". Can't sit still with that one.

Bill you had to search til 2001 to find a thread about covers. Wow. Anyway I am just listening to Rocco Ventrella's Give Me The Groove and I like his album. I have nothing against covers when they are well made. Especially I like when artist give the original a new sense, a new turn like Jason Miles does.

I had the total opposite reaction to most of that album [particularly What Does it Take, which shows how little I know since everyone (radio anyway) loved it ].
Please don't hurt me oh PW legion!
LOL

Wow, Billy G! You certainly did dig up a very old dinosaur. I guess you must have forgot about the 2007: "That Cover Thang" thread. BTW, I agree with you about PW's "Mr. Magic"(heard it on internet radio), but when I listened to samples of the rest of the album, I felt the same as Leslie.(But that's just my opinion.) And speaking of "That Cover Thang" thread, Shannon made a comment in the January 17, 2007 08:22 post( reply # 14 ) about Maysa's 2006 cover album, and I just got that album a couple of months ago, and I have to agree with what Shannon said. As a matter of fact, she may have liked the album better than I did because after having listened to it for a few minutes, I had to take it off because I just wasn't feeling those old songs. It could have been the mood that I was in, therefore, I may have to listen to the album again.

The cover thang is so distinctive that some groups are covering their own music. I cite Incognito and their new album Bees + Things + Flowers.

The line "Bees and Things and Flowers" come from Roy Ayers title song, "Everyboby Loves The Sunshine". Covers are fine when done well with a twist. When we go to bars, clubs, etc., and listen to local artists and groups, covers are what you're gonna hear no matter what style of music it is at some point. Some will be great, some not.

Generally against cover tunes myself, I'd rather hear the artists' original work, but it's all about the song and if an artist really connects with a particular song and wants to do a cover, fine. So long as it's not just to please marketing or the only way they can get radio play....that would make me think their songwriting is second rate and cannot stand on it's own merit.

The best example I've heard in recent years is Ken Navarro's version of Pat Metheny's Lakes.

Part of what makes that one work so well is the outstanding musicians Ken has with him in the studio, but the biggest thing is Ken's skills are showcased and you can tell he's really enjoying the challenge of playing such a complex piece for us mere mortals to attempt. Especially on a nylon string guitar.
Bascially, Ken makes it his own song, and it's "quite lovely", as Simon would say

That's funny! I had to change my name (and re-register) because for some reason, my password wouldn't work anymore!

Actually Greg when I did the search I was looking for "That Cover Thang" with "cover" as the keyword, but didn't see it so I snagged this rascal. Hardly seems that long ago eh? Another one I was looking for was about jazz musicians with vocal guests on their cd's....didn't find it.

Everyone seems to agree that covers need to be well made in the ears of the beholder. As for me, since picking up the bass Im finding that I listen to music different than before. I can't explain that. Not yet anyway.

Rocco Ventrella is a new name for me. I'll have to check it out after I send the PW PO-LEECE after Please don't hurt me oh PW legion! Leslie. :p

I seldom purchase vocal cd's because I'm more into music. Vocal covers brings the thought of one trying to "one-up" the other. Most times, "I'm just not feelin' it" with the singer, but I enjoy experiencing one artist's re-interpretation of anothers' work. Like Tony said, so long as it's not just to please marketing because it will cause me to think their songwriting cannot stand on it's own merit.

Billy, I know we've discussed vocal guests on several occasions but I don't remember ever seeing a thread dedicated to that topic.

That's a very nice compliment, Tony and I thank you (again!). Over the years I have resisted having cover songs on my albums and believe me, when I was recording for Shanachie Records, there was pressure on me to do them (and I still didn't). As a composer, I just don't care about them unless they fit into the concept of a particular CD I am creating. "Lakes" was so right for my new CD in many ways, not least of which was the emphasis it placed on real musicians playing all out, live in the studio. Plus I loved the song and knew that I could give it an updated treatment that retained the freshness of the original. And finally it's a thank you to Pat Metheny for all the great music and inspiration he has provided for me. BUT - none of that would have caused me to include it on the final CD if it didn't fit seamlessly into "The Meeting Place" CD as a whole.

I think you're right Woody. I don't think I want to start one.

Ah, I'm afraid I am a repeat offender. :p I will enjoy an album by PW, at some point, I swear. That day hasn't come since 1997 but I live in hope.

I heard he was dropped by his label recently which is a shame if it's true. Surely it must have to do with consolidation or some such as that makes very little sense to me.

No harm done, Billy, however, if you had looked down a little further on the search page, you would have seen "That Cover Thang" thread. :p

You're welcome of course, and I like your reasoning...I just wish more of these artist would look at it that way and stand their ground when it comes to the label pressure, as you did.

You'd think it'd get make more sense for a label to own and market outstanding high quality original material that could be successful on it's own, rather than watering the whole marketplace down by making marginal artists (and bands) do covers just to get some exposure.

When it comes to music, I don't think the "bad press is better than no press" maxim works very well.

Hey Leslie. I hadn't heard that and I agree it makes little sense. Have you seen his tour schedule? He is really covering (no pun intended) some real estate.

Hey Greg!
I suppose my missing it is a "dinosaur" thang

Billy, I almost forgot to mention that we all have our senior...I mean "dinosaur" moments.

I bet y'all just can't wait for Michael Buble's latest: Call Me Irresponsible
Among others, it includes:
Me and Mrs. Jones (originally recorded by Billy Paul)
Wonderful Tonight (Eric Clapton)
I've Got the World on a String (songbook standard)
Always on My Mind (Willie Nelson)

Gee! Thanks for the forward look Woody.

I like to see someone cover a "dog" and make IT a hit as opposed to covering hits and classics.

Hey Billy....that's a great idea, redo a dog into a great new song....maybe we can get a decent rapper/hiphop-er to do a tricked out beat box remix version of "Telephone Man"....whaddya think, woody? :p

Typical backbeat behind vocals...

boomboomshackashackaboomshackaboomscratch and repeat....of course :p

Hey, b-baby-baby, I'm your t-tele-telephone man
You just show me where you want it and I'll put it put it where I can
I can put it in the bedroom, yo, I can put it in the hall (grab crotch here)
I can put it in the bathroom, watch dis,I can hang it on the wall
You can have it with a buzzbuzz, you can have it with a ringaring
And if you really want it bad baby you can have a ding-a-ding-ding-ding-a-ding-a-ling
Because-a hey b-b-b-b-baby, I'm your...(scratchSCRATCHscratch).....telephone man"

Yeah, lets see Michael Buble do THAT...

Tony

Ouch, Tony, that's cold. lol
Hey, as I remember, Telephone Man was kinda cute because it was so silly. But yeah, it would be interesting to hear a new version of it.

Now, Mister Telephone Man, (by New Edition), might work.

Ouch Tony! What key was that supposed to be? Hopefully LOW. :p

Here's some quotes from The Associated Press Interview with Bruce Hornsby, who just released "Camp Meeting," a jazz CD with Christian McBride and Jack DeJohnette. I found his comments regarding covers quite interesting.

AP How did you choose jazz standards like Thelonious Monk’s “Straight, No Chaser” or Bud Powell’s “Celia” for the CD?
Hornsby Hornsby: I only recorded something that I thought I could find an interesting take on that was my own. ... that gave it a reason for being played again. I remember Jack and Christian saying, “Do we really have to play ‘Straight, No Chaser’?” I understand why they said that — it’s sort of a club date jazz tune, so overdone, it’s sort of like the “Proud Mary” of the jazz canon. But I said, “Look, I have an odd way of playing it. If you like it we’ll play it, if you don’t we won’t.” I played it for them. ... it was sort of a pointillistic version, and they went, “Oh, very fresh.”
AP AP: How do you feel about the reaction to “Camp Meeting”?
Hornsby Hornsby: Overall ... the reaction has been shock and surprise on lots of levels. I would think that anybody who hears this would know that ... that I’ve certainly spent some time with this music on a deep level. I’ve had a couple of writers liken this to when Rod Stewart made his standards records. That’s a very clueless statement because this is the opposite of that. That’s a commercial ploy a lot of people have used in the past several years. ... It’s sort of modern day Muzak that goes down real easy for the old yuppie audience. I start off with an (Ornette Coleman) tune that’s so angular. “Death and the Flower” is a pretty obscure Keith Jarrett tune. ... Why would they liken that to someone’s pop standards record?

I am not going to say anything that has not already been said.

1. Cover are Ok as long as they are different, with the artist's stamp on it.

2. Covers are no worse than "original" tunes that sound like dozens of other tunes.

3. Jazz has a long history of playing covers; only they call it "the great American songbook."

4. If it gets more people listening to instrumental music, it has its place.

5. Buy what you like. If ya don't like 'em, don'y buy 'em.

Peace.