Well I picked up "Got The Magic" last night.
I have to say that this record threw me for a loop upon the first couple of spins.
There were reports that Windham Hill Jazz had asked Jay Beckenstein to come up with an accessable record...a record that would get alot of airplay.
I sort of scoffed at the notion...knowing how headstrong Jay Beckenstein is.
Well he did come up with the commericial record that they asked for.
So commercial in fact, that many of the critics the band won over with last years live record, the fantastic "Road Scholars", are bound to jump off the newly boarded ship.
"Got The Magic" reminds me of the seamless productions that the early Spyro Gyra records were.
Fans that hoped the band was going to take the extended soloing and intense, rough around the edges style that informed "Road Scholars" into the studio are not going to find that here.
The first thing that struck me about this record, besides the fact that it recalls the Spyro Gyra of the late 70's and early 80's, is that there are vocals all over this record...a concession I wish the band had not made.
It's not that this is not a great record...I think in many ways, it IS a great record...it's just not the "style" of great that I have in mind when I think of the most challenging of the bands compositions..."De La Luz" "Believe", "Breakout" "Sunflurry", "Escape Hatch", "Conversations", "Incognito", "Pacific Sunrise", "Breakfast At Igors", "Midnite", "Burkes Law", "Joyride", "The Archer" "Captain Karma"....you ge the idea.
Alot of people are going to call this recording a "smooth" recording, and I am going to have a tought time arguing that.
At the moment, my favorites on the new record include, "Sierra"(a track that features a good scat vocal performance by Julio Fernandez), "Havana Moonlight"(a latin tinged performance-a style that is indeed one of my favorite Spyro Gyra trademarks), "Breezeway"(a Jeremy Wall composition that DEFINITELY recalls the bands early, more po influenced period), and "Silk And Satin".
This may change upon further listening...but my first impression is that there is much less Tom Schuman on this record than I like...and much less heavy Julio Fernandez guitar passages. Julio does shine on acoustic guitar on more than a couple of tunes, but I expested at least a track or two where the whole band really lets it fly. You are not going to find it on "Got The Magic".
Jay Beckenstein has stated many times in interviews that the band is always careful to balance the bands melodic compositions with more angular complex pieces...the band has made this record top heavy with the melodic, at the expense of even one hard charging tune.
"Pure Mood" is a bouncy latin tinged number...but I wish it were a bit edgier...maybe even alot edgier.
Overall, I think that "Got The Magic" has the potential to be a hit record and/or recieve alot of airplay on smooth jazz stations.
The melodic songs are as great as ever...I think that a great sense of what a great song and melody is one the bands best features...I just think that in their desire to be accommodating to the Windham Hill excecutives, the may have gone a bit overboard....
Who knows...in a couple of weeks I may have a different take on "Got The Magic"...it certainly is a pristine recording...incredible production...layers upon layers of stuff going on...but to find the jazz influences, you REALLY have to dig deep for them with this one.
As some are aware, I have never been the biggest fan of vocals on Spyro Gyra compositions...although I do LOVE the "De La Luz" type vocals...and I think that AT LEAST five or six of the new songs have at least some vocals on them...and one(Springtime Laughter)features words voclaized by Basia.
A great song, but I have a problem with it being on a Spyro Gyra record...I just don't think pop vocal song when I think Spyro Gyra.
Most or all of the edge that we know Spyro Gyra has in it's arsenal have been "Smoothed" away. I don't mind it at all, sometimes even love it, for a few tunes per record...but not for an entire record.
I am not going to disown the band or anything like that...the band never stays in one place for to long...and the new songs may take on new lives in the live shows...and the live shows are never going to become "edited" as some of the bands studio compositions turn out.
Well, that's my initial take on "Got The Magic"...more comments after I have had a much longer period of time to digest this new, "seemingly" smooth cd.

Peace!
Paul

Glad to know that we are still on the same wavelength Paul.

The tracks are very listenable in the vein you describe so my hope for Spyro in their fight to survive in the music world is that this release hits the charts and stays there for the whole year!

To those who like the timbre of the saxophone and languish in the sound of the Boney James' or G-men types, I have say that I prefer the work of Jay Beckenstein, hands down!

Hit those charts, Jay!

Phil,

Your last point is indeed a double edged sword:

I wish the band every success...but I am deathly afraid that if "Got The Magic" becomes a hit, the band may stick with the style for more than one record.
If they continued to put out records with so many vocal performances on them(as is the case with "Magic") the band would slip from the top of the heap when it comes to my rankings of the best contemporary jazz bands.
Part of me would rather see Spyro Gyra end up playing to crowds of 40 or 50 people rather than blur into the smooth jazz set.
I love the fact that you can still tell if it's Spyro Gyra when you here them come on the radio....and I do not want them to just become one of the many...I want them to remain a distinct voice!
Peace!
Paul

P.S. I hope that even if "Magic" is a hit, the band still feels it has enough control over the creative process to make a more "improvised" and overtly "jazzy" or "fusion-y" record next time out!

To tell the truth I haven't heard the CD since I am waiting for my promos (yes Windham Hill is sending me stuff..very cool!)
But I did have to bring up one thing..I don't feel that a lack of improvisational content indicates smoothing out. Improvisation is requisite for straightahed/traditional jazz but it is not necessary (although nice as icing on the cake) in terms of contemporary. So structured songs in themselves don't imply smooth Look at SG's "Joyride" and "Daddys got a New Girl Now"..two very structured songs that are anything *but* smooth. Smoothing out comes when the the songs are all soft/romantic and string synths start to wash over the music, that generic percussion loop takes over, and there is more groove and mood than discernable song (a lot of smooth jazz is just lite improvisation over a sequencer right now..presumably an actual song would make the music "too exciting" or too noticable). The song I do have wasn't a thrill but it wasn't a Boney Cloney either..
commercial makes me happy, sappy makes me gag.

Shannon,

First, THANKS FOR YOUR CONTRIBUTION!

Phil and I get a bit upset that other Spyro Gyra fans have not yet dicovered this dicussion board...perhaps in future months they will! So it is great to have new thought and opinions.

I have listened to "Got The Magic" about a dozen times...and I really like five or six cuts.

I thinks that when you hear the record, you will understand what Phil and I meant when we described it as "too smooth" in some places.

First, there are a few songs that include vocal trio's running through the songs chanting lyrics such as "the magic...the magic"...or "love comes....when you least expect it...they say that love comes"

Stuff like that just makes me yell "YUCK!!!" when I hear it.

Sometimes, you can add TOO much to a composition...and these vocal parts that are added, not only do not add anything, they DETRACT from those five songs...they make me CRINGE.

If you go back over the posts threads I have started and contributed to since Magic Island opened some months ago, you will find thatI am a HUGE, HUGE SPYRO GYRA fan-atic!

The record is a mixed bag...I won't let the songs that let me down detract from song I that are growning on me("Sierra", "Havana Moonlight", "Teardrops", "Breezway", "Silk And Satin")...but it's tough to believe that I will ever like the songs with those ANNOYING vocal sound bites on them.

And that is tough to say, because Spyro Gyra remains the best contemporary jazz band around...especially in the live setting.

Peace!
Paul

I was hoping I would get the CD today, but there is a reason they call it Snail Mail!..
There is one thing in the world that gets on my nerves more than a sugary wash of string synths and that is those *awful* chant vocals. I call them "Najee chants" because my first recollection of being annoyed by them was on Najee's first CD. Cringe only begins to describe my reaction to this. For one thing they are totally useless..either make a song a vocal or make it an instrumental *don't sing the title of the song overandoverandover*. Ick. I don't recall SG ever doing this before but I am convinced that Chuck Loeb went to one two many radio conventions and got conned by the buzzword'n'Armani gang before realizing that it was unnecessary and may actually hurt sales to follow their lead.
I grew up with SG in the sense that I did my first "jazz brunch" shows around the time the first album came out (Shaker song, not Morning Dance") and have been playing them ever since. Some CDs I like and some I don't..they are more of a song by song band to me..I have seen them live about 15 times over the years and love their concerts but have never been a rabid fan. I am a rabid Rippingtons fan, all incarnations included, and seeing audiences respond to their live work was one of the reasons I started to think of programming contemporary instrumental music in a more uptempo/rock leaning context..so whether you are a Rips fan or not at least they kept one person from even setting foot on the path to Smooth.

Shannon,

I've had that fantasy for some time now...getting a station to program at least one hour a day, or even one hour a week with compositions that never make it to the playlist rotation(due to the fact that the listener "focus groups" find those songs too challenging.
Some songs take a while to grow on you...and many times, those same songs become far and away your favorites!
I think I love about 95-99 percent of everthing that Spyro Gyra has released...and live, pehaps only the Pat Metheny Group can keep up with them on a band member for band member musicianship level.
The Riipingtons music is kinda hit or miss with me...some tracks blow me away...others are just kinda "there"...not horrible, but not particularly memorable.
Speaking of the Ripps...I will have the good fortune to see them on Sept 10.
As for Spyro Gyra, I will get a chance to see how the new material comes off live when I see them on August 11th at Humphries in San Diego, and at the Hyatt Newporter in Newport Beach on August 13th.

BY THE WAY...WHAT IS YOUR TAKE ON "GOT THE MAGIC", Shannon?
Peace!
Paul

My current take on Got the Magic is that it is a smooth jazz background music album. I have tried to listen to it several times and it just plays through without me noticing it(as someone in a focus group said about our local smooth jazz station "we play it at work because nobody notices that it's on").
It is a pleasant piece of background music with a few bright moments and too many soft unnoticable passages in between.
I am probably oversensitive to generic smooth jazz because I get so many CDs now that all have certain requisite elements..so as soon as those string synths come in or those voices chant the title of the song over and over I fly for that skip button. People who don't hear tons of smooth jazz formula music probably won't be as sensitized to it as I am. But I wish that in the wish to accomodate radio these artists would not get so tunnel visioned. In the industry, especially in LA I imagine someone could get the impression that the SJ radio was the only way to expose the music and that everyone who likes contemporary instrumnental music is a Smooth Jazz listener. This just ain't true..I had that reaffirmed last night when I saw the Rippingtons and Craig Chaquico..the crowd was mostly late 30s and up and they went nuts everytime these guys played something that rocked. I like a pretty ballad that has a melody and a hook (and either a complete vocal or no vocal..none of this chanting) but I like diversity too. and the impression I get from casual people watching and more formal research is that a lot of people are like that too. I think someone mentioned it on one of these boards before but I feel the same way so I will restate. Why not give radio 2 or 3 formula cuts with the soprano sax and string synths then give the rest of the album to real people, old fans and potential new fans. I don't care if there is not much of an edge, I don't care about "jazziness" or improvisation..what I want is songs that catch my attention and stick in my head. Background music just doesn't do that.
I want' the band to be successful, I want their music to sell..but will being one more unnoticable element in an unnoticable music mix in a radio format that is not in that many markets do the trick?

To everyone, I don't have the cd as yet. But I'm getting the idea that the tunes were probably rejects from the previous studio cd!! Just to get this cd out on time. Is anyone else getting this idea too? I may not buy this one based on all the criticism.

later

Shannon . . .

>>... Why not give radio 2 or 3 formula cuts with the soprano sax and string synths then give the rest of the album to real people, old fans and potential new fans. ...<<

I always enjoy your comments and insight on these threads. The above comment brought to mind the latest Yellowjackets' release "Club Nocturne" that seems to have followed the suggestion above. This release also included five or six excellent arrangements from the pens of Russell Ferrante and Bob Mintzer that are pure YJ stuff. Their fans, however, tended to moan about the vocal tracks from Kurt Elling, Jonathan Butler and Brenda Russell being included and have been pretty negative about the release.

Fans can be tough on their favorites. They tend to want what they want and I guess I do as well. I've posted some pretty negative thoughts on "Got the Magic." I believe what I'm afraid of most is that Spyro Gyra, after 20 years near the top, is going to be compromised and eventually swallowed up in today's increasing mediocrity. I suppose they have vital choices to make for their future. But as Pat Metheny said recently, if commercial success was his primary goal, he could do much better writing jingles for McDonald's. I want these guys to stand their ground as a lot of other jazz artists are doing.

The band is on the right track as always, I cant remmember ever listening to a bad spyro
album. Got the magic does go back to the older sound that they had when they first started, But thats what made them who they are today, ( The Best ) I have seen the band from when they first started, and I have seen them grow, We all know what they can do.Everyone who was a part of the band during
the years were all monster players.All the new fans are used to listening to the RAW
spyro That has a great hungry sound, But all
I can say is that as long as Jay and TOM are
together, I will be happy.Because they are the best. By the way ( JAY ) Try to keep this band together as long as you can. I love Joel, Scott, Julio. I have seen every chicago
show since the first at the park west. I would love for the band to contact me.
I also am a drummer and would love to talk to Joel. Jay keep up the good work, You never let me down yet. Your Biggest fan ever.

------------------
jazcat9@yahoo.com

The band is on the right track as always, I cant remmember ever listening to a bad spyro
album. Got the magic does go back to the older sound that they had when they first started, But thats what made them who they are today, ( The Best ) I have seen the band from when they first started, and I have seen them grow, We all know what they can do.Everyone who was a part of the band during
the years were all monster players.All the new fans are used to listening to the RAW
spyro That has a great hungry sound, But all
I can say is that as long as Jay and TOM are
together, I will be happy.Because they are the best. By the way ( JAY ) Try to keep this band together as long as you can. I love Joel, Scott, Julio. I have seen every chicago
show since the first at the park west. I would love for the band to contact me.
I also am a drummer and would love to talk to Joel. Jay keep up the good work, You never let me down yet. Your Biggest fan ever.

------------------
jazcat9@yahoo.com

Jazzcat9 . . .

Nice to have another SG fan on hand. Maybe we should debate who really is the band's greatest fan sometime.

I've listened to the band for about nine years, having discovered them after their initial popularity period in the early to mid-80s. I've read Jay Beckenstein's comments that "Got the Magic" was a release similar to early stuff. But when I listen to stuff like "Catching the Sun" and others, I still get a different feel from the new release. I believe it may have to do with introducing Chuck Loeb into the mix.

Don't get me wrong. I will always be a great fan of this band and will make every "live" performance if at all possible. I prefer the "Three Wishes," "Dreams Beyond Control," "Roads Scholars" approach. These releases better characterize what you get from this band at a "live" show.

Jazcat9,

Well MAYBE you MIGHT squeeze into a tie with me for the number one Spyro Gyra fan.
I too, love the current line-up...then only change I would make would be to get a hypnotist to get ahold of Dave Samuels and get him back in the band!
It's a tribute to Spyro Gyra that they have continued on, barely missing a beat, without Samuels as a full time Spyro member.
I have taken my brothers/friends to see Spyro Gyra over the last four years, and they say that they can't imagine Spyro Gyra being any better...that they are the best musicians they have ever seen.
Amazing that Spyro Gyra used to have SIX virtuosos onstage(and with Mark Quinones and before him, Gerardo Velez SEVEN!).
And to me, Julio has become as indespensable as Jay and Schuuu are...Jay Azzolina is a great great player, but Julio is more diverse, and by far the better stage precence...and does a much better job of changing his solo's and guitar sound from night tonight and tour to tour.
As a veteran of 31 Spyro Gyra concerts since 1985, they've NEVER let me down live.
At the moment, "Got The Magic" is getting a mixed review from me...I really like about 5 or 6 cuts...and hate 3 of them, due mainly to the "vocal sound bites" that I'd like to erase from my copy of the CD.
I think that the band records what it wants to record...sometimes we forget that the band may have such a diverse pallete of "likes" that it's easier for us to say that they were creating an album just to fit into the rigid playlists at smooth jazz radio stations.
It's equally possible that they really like the kind of music they created on "Magic"...we have to be careful not to assume that they hated to make this record...that they ONLY did it to make the execs happy at Windham Hill Jazz.
Besides that, I think i have ID'd at least three or four songs that will be dynamite in the live setting! Especially given that Spyro trademark build on the studio version approach.
Peace!
Paul

I have been listening to SG since the beginning (and playing them on the radio, we'll just act like I was 12 years old when I had my first jazz show, OK? )and "Magic" doesn't really remind me of the early stuff that much, probably because I don't recall the early albums having chant vocals on them and those seem to be an integral part of this project. Also to put it bluntly, if it had not been a crossover hit "Morning Dance" would probably be seen as "too exciting" or too obtrusive for Smooth Jazz airplay since its rather sunny and bouncy and has no RnB flavor at all. My favorite SG "period" is late 80s: "Breakout" and "City Kids".
The irony here is that at a recent radio convention some SJ programmers even showed an awareness that they have backed themselves into a corner by being so narrow musically and it is eroding the audience..
A few years ago Dave Koz had a nice NAC hit with "Let Me Count the Ways". On the CD it has a very annoying chant vocal..the radio version actually *took out* the vocal..there was a great song underneath that cheeze too and it turned out to be a hit. I hear a good song underneath the title trak to this CD too, I would love to hear "Got The Magic" without the vocal.

[This message has been edited by Shannon West (edited 06-16-99).]

First, it's great to get some banter going here...for a long time it was like the Phil and Paul Spyro Gyra discussion forum!

I would like to address Phil's point re: what Jay Beckenstein said about parts of the CD being "retro"...
I find three songs that could have easily fit onto some of the early Spyro records:

Breezeway...the more I listen to it, the more I like it...and think that it has the flavor of a track or two off of "Freetime"

Teardrops...I think I hear echoes of "Harbor Nights" from the "Incognito" release in this new ballad(and I think it might make a dynamite live number, a la 1998's live version of Tom Schuman's "I Believe In You")

Silk and Satin...something about this one reminds me, again, of the "Incognito" release

I also think that Beckenstein may have been referring to the bands early approach of building a song layer by layer by layer in the studio...and using outside musicians...this might be part of the "retro" approach mentioned by Jay.

I think that once Beckenstein decided to make the performing band the same one that performed on the songs in the studio, the band became much better, much stronger more honest.

Since 1985, the records have been my favorites.

I think that "Heart Of The Night", with the most overt references to "straight ahead" jazz of any Spyro recording, and "Road Scholars", are as strong as any record the band has released.

"Dreams Beyond Control" and "Love And Other Obessessions" would rank right along side with "Road" and "Heart", but "Dreams" and "Love" are each marred by two songs featuring the same thing that marrs "Got The Magic"...vocal performances that make me say "YUCK".

I have to admit that other than a couple of times(when I first spun the CD's)i have not listened to any of the four songs from "Love" and "Dreams" at any time when I put the CD in my player...in fact, as I did quickly with "Magic", I transfered the CD to a cassette tape and edited out the tracks that have vocals on them...makes the CD's much much stronger, in my opinion.

The only song by Spyro Gyra with vocals that belongs in the catagory of "great" is "De La Luz" featuring Julio Fernandez. I'd listen to those type of vocal performances every day of the week and twice on Sunday.

The one's I mentioned from "Dreams" and "Love" and the new one's from "Magic"...I don't care if I ever hear them again, and I wish the band had not even put em on the releases.

Oh, I forgot to mention "Tower Of Babel"...that is one other Spyro song with a vocal on it that I love!

Peace!
Paul

I'll have to agree with you guys on the vocals thing. But I will say that even though I've only listened to the Basia vocal a couple of times, I think I do like it best of the vocal tunes. I guess you could say it sucks the least. The two on Love are the worst, followed by the two on Dreams. Those just sound like BAD ballads. I think the Basia tune at least sounds somewhat jazzy... but anyway...

I think the one thing I appreciate about SG is the fact that they've always had horns backing them. Sorry... I'm just a fan of horns. However, I do think the horn arrangements on Magic are less aggressive (i.e. South American Soujourn, Breakfast at Igor's, Rockin' a Heart Place). I hope they're not fasing them out.

The main reason I'm writing is this (sorry for going off the topic of the thread): I don't see much mention of 20/20 on the board... particularly this thread (where other recent albums are mentioned). IMHO, I think 20/20 is one of their best studio releases yet. But then again, it may be a horns thing too... and I don't know how big a fan you guys are of horns.

Later,
Jader

I like the Basia vocal although not as much as I like most of the songs on her albums. I am glad they chose Basia to do the vocal rather than one of these Peabo Bryson soundalikes that seem to be on so many CJ albums. I don't mind a vocal or two that are whole songs although I personally don't like R'n'B ballads, but no complete song bothers me to the extent that having a vocal chorus chant one or two sentences over and over does. I have yet to hear a song that was enhanced by that. Don't mind scat type vocals either unless the same type of scat vocal shows up on a lot of songs on one CD (which to a certain extent happened with the female vocal chorus on Got the Magic). I didn't mind the vocal on "Ariana" at all, still think that was a catchy song. I don't like straightahead jazz at all, have been around it for years and never enjoyed it and finally reached the point where I didn't want to spend time doing things that were more intellectual than enjoyable to me..I quit trying to sit thru artsy movies around the same time..I like pop songs and I like movies where a lot of stuff blows up Where I get antsy with the current state of Contemporary Jazz evolving into Smooth is when it crosses the line between pop and easy listening..as one of my favorite country songs says "I'm not ready for the rockin' chair"..

Jader . . .

I'm with you on Basia's "Got the Magic" track. I've always enjoyed her music and "Springtime Laughter" was composed by an absolutely wonderful musician/writer, Jeaf Beal and his wife Joan.

I was surprised last year when I purchased Basia's "Basia on Broadway" live release and found that one of the most beautiful songs she's ever done, "Yearning," featured a beautiful soprano saxophone solo by Spyro leader Jay Beckenstein. Turns out that Spyro and Basia toured together in 1994 (I believe that was the year).

I believe that vocals can be used on a group's releases. The human voice can be a marvelous istrument blending and interacting with a group of musicians. All one has to do is listen to New York Voices or Manhattan Transfer's Janis Siegel to realize this.

Shannon's comments on the overuse of what she calls "chant" vocals are another story altogether. They get to the point where they can only detract from an arrangement.

"Got the Magic" has some nice pieces on it ("Silk and Satin," & "Teardrops") it but I had to chuckle when Shannon commented on putting a CD on to see if anything on it would grab your attention or simply occur in the background. I want to remember that one because I think it's an excellent way, in a sense, to measure a release in today's "smooth" music "sameness" fog.

Phil,

I agree that a vocalist CAN add to a bands music...heck look at the Pat Metheny Group, who really hit their high water mark with the release's that feature the great voice of Pedro Aznar...I love that type of vocalizing!
Same with Julio Fernandez's vocal on "De La Luz"...one of the standout tracks on a great record, "Heart Of The Night".
I even like Julio's scat vocal on "Sierra", off of "Got The Magic".

The Basia vocal performance on the new record is very good...to me though, it just seems out of place...doesn't improve the flow of the record. I wish that Jay Beckenstein would've saved this song...and the whole add the vocal chant approach for his side project that Windham Hill Jazz is releasing next year.
I am definitely not dead set against vocals...just dead set against those vocals that are embarassing and make me cringe, as many of the arrangements on "Magic" cause me to do.

Peace!
Paul

Well ladies and gentlemen, I finally bought the cd! And to my suprise, the only tune I did like was the 'Basia' tune!!! The rest all suck! I don't think that they put their best effort into this cd! I also am disappointed in Chuck Loeb as I am a big fan of his works! I would be ashamed to even have my name associated with this cd!! Jay, you really let down all your fans on this one! Let's hope you can make a comeback on the next cd! Sorry folks, I am a sad man today. I wish I could get my money back I am happy to see a friend of mine [Scott Kreitzer] playing on the cd though. I also know Billy
Cliff[vocals]very fine vocalist but SG is at their best without vocals.

Later

[This message has been edited by david_walmsley (edited 06-20-99).]

Jader,

I agree with you. I too think horns add a lot used in the right places.

My humble assessment of Spyro's new CD....I have listened to it many times since I bought it and although it is a bit of a departure from their earlier stuff, it still is all SG. I could do without Basia, and the cuts are nothing like "Conversations", "Bob Goes to the Store", etc. but it will stay in my CD rotation along with all of their others.

Just my opinion...

wow im glad im not the only one who had this less than enthusiastic response to "got the magic"..i agree with most of what everyone has said...i really dont see the reflection of the older spyro though..im referring to songs like heliopolis, pyramid, islands in the sky, great songs like that...this album disappoints me greatly..you can read what i wrote in their guestbook..i pretty much said the same things as you guys...

You guys might think this weird, but I've had the best time exposing my kids to SG. You know what song they liked the best from 20/20? The Deep End....I laugh out loud every time I listen to it-great stuff. Just what the world needs, a whimsical side....

De La Luz is probably my all time favorite SG tune, I wish I spoke Spanish....My best to a legendary band!

Bill B,

I have so many favorite Spyro Gyra compositions, it's hard to name my absolute favorite--suffice it to say that when "Heart Of The Night" was the latest release, "De La Luz" was in the zone of being my favorite Spyro Gyra composition. And of course, the way the band built upon the studio version in the live setting made it evn better.

On the new record, "Got The Magic" my favorite from the beginning has been "Havanna Moonlight"...it probably will grow and mature in concert also.

On 20/20, my faves are "The Unwritten Letter" and "South American Sojourn"

On Road Scholars, definitely the piano trio version of "Shaker Song"...a great on amongst an entire record of great ones!

Peace!
Paul

I just wanted to ask other posters if they happened to see the Spyro Gyra guestbook recently? Phil Brennan has posted some comments from people who have purchased "Got The Magic". They seem to be nearly universal in praising the new record.
In this thread, we have noticed more mixed reviews. I personally love many more songs on "Got The Magic" than I dislike...I think that other than the titlke track, and the other songs with pop oriented vocals, "Got The Magic" has turned out to be a strong record. It is still in the contemporary jazz top 10 after nearly two months in release.
What are your thoughts? Are WE the one's who are disconnected?

I agree with you Paul. I like "Got The Magic" quite a bit. Title track could be the most brutal song on the cd though. I wonder why they did that? The boys can't possibly think that is one of the highlights on the cd. But Breezeway, Havana, If You Will, Teardrops and Pure Mood(could be a cut on Topaz) are all awesome. My favorite SG recordings are "Three Wishes" and "Dreams Beyond Control." I guess we all have to expect some variation in artists music as they produce new material. There's nothing wrong with a little variety I guess. However, here's one I can't figure out. The new Boney James "Body Language" is clearly the lamest cd I have purchased in 1999 yet go to his website and 90% of feedback is it is his best work to date. I have listed through it 12-15 times. "Into The Blue" is the only worthwhile song. The rest is nothing more than wedding reception dinner music. What am I missing??? Compared to "Camouflage", this latest is a complete frisbee. Help me out.

David,

I agree with you. Over at another bbs(the late great Jazz Central Station) Boney James caught the fancy of a few of the posters.
He has great influences...Boney says that if it weren't for playing "air saxaphone" to Spyro Gyra and Grover Washington Jr. records when he was a teen, he would not be doing what he is doing today.
I DO like "Into the Blue" quite alot...reminds me of early or mid period Spyro Gyra. I only hesitated on buying the CD because I suspected that there might not be alot of variety composition and instrument wise(for example, Spyro has songs that feature synthesiser, or piano, acoustic or electric guitar, vibraphone or marimba, tenor, alto, or soprano sax...I did not here the potential for that type of diversity on "Into the Blue").
Boney is undeniably popluar.... his latest has sold around 500,000 units...which is pretty rare these days for a jazz release.
And your point about Spyro Gyra being forever open to change and to new musics is well taken. I guess that with that attitude(and I NEVER want that attitude to change!)occasionally the band will come up with a track or two that doesn't float my boat.
As a matter of fact, the bands commitment to looking forward and to change is what will keep me buying the new releases and, of course seeing them in concert. They will always be at the top of the heap when it comes to live performances...even if they made a country or hard rock record, that aspect of the band would not change.

Peace!
Paul

An earlier message of mine contained the following:

>>... The tracks are very listenable in the vein you describe so my hope for Spyro in their fight to survive in the music world is that this release hits the charts and stays there for the whole year! ...<<

Just visited the Gavin website (http://www.gavin.com) and see that "Got the Magic" is still climbing the Smooth Jazz charts and is now #3, seemingly picking up speed relative to "airplay." Only David Benoit's latest and Tom Scott's "Smokin' Section" are ahead of it. Lookout, here comes that "pond scum" band (Paul Lasecki's phrase).

Phil,

Actually, the truth be told, I stole that "Pond Scum" reference from one Mr. Jay Beckenstein.
I remember hearing Jay when being interviewed by David Sanborn on Sanborn's "The Jazz Show"(radio syndicated). Jay was relating the now legendary story about how the band was named, and as an aside, said something like, "So basically we are named after pond scum..." Sanborn laughed...and I've remembered that exchange since 1986(Beckenstein and Sanborn were previewing cuts "Breakout"). Now you know.

Peace!
Paul

P.S. Attended two top notch Spyro Gyra concerts in the past two days(Aug 10th, and 11th)...will post epic, long winded reviews in a day or two. Hee hee hee.

Enough on who's the number 1 fan. Allow me to introduce myself, NUMBER ONE SPYRO GYRA FAN ANYWHERE! ALL RIGHT? DON'T BELIEVE ME? ASK THE BAND! There...

BillB, your kid has very good taste. Each of Scott's compositions have been great. I was disappointed that none of them made it on to Road Scholars. Yes, he contributed to Igor's, but...

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Gary

Gary,

Well, I will appoint ya as my number two!

I just experienced my 32nd, 33rd,and 34th Spyro Gyra concerts, and a person close to the band told me a few night's back that I probably remember and know more about the band than the band themselves!
Seriously though, it's good to see other people posting here who seem to be as passionate about Spyro Gyra as Phil and myself! Great to have you aboard. Keep active and start some subject threads that we can respond to.

Peace!
Paul

Okay, Paul by now I'm sure you know every note on "Got The Magic." How about on "If You Will" at the 3:06 mark in the song Jay does a little riff down the scale that is vintage Jay...subtle yet spectacular. Cool stuff! I love finding little surprises on a cd after 20+ times through.

Okay, Paul by now I'm sure you know every note on "Got The Magic." How about on "If You Will" at the 3:06 mark in the song Jay does a little riff down the scale that is vintage Jay...subtle yet spectacular. Cool stuff! I love finding little surprises on a cd after 20+ times through.

Steve,

I just listened to that track, and thanks for pointing that out. You are correct...it is vintage Jay. And I find more Julio on the record than I originally did...albeit lower in the mix, so you have to concentrate to pick it up. His electric solo at the coda of "Teardrops" is excellent...and I think it it'd make a dynamite live number(as Tom Schuman's ballad, "I Believe In You" did last year--that ended with a slow, jazz/bluesy Julio solo).

"If You Will" has grown on me since the initial spin of "Got The Magic".

Peace!
Paul

Was skimming the new "R n R" magazine last night and was pleasently surprised to see that "Got The Magic" is still at #16 on the contemporary jazz album charts.

Since it was released in June 1999, that means the record has some incredible legs....it's been in the top 20 for more than 7 months!

"Breezeway" has been getting some airplay....maybe not as much as "Silk and Satin" has, but enough to keep the record on the charts.

Do you think the band will release another single from "Got the Magic", or concentrate on the next record?

The success of "Magic" probably means a late summer release for the next Spyro opus.

BTW...does anyone else think that Jay Beckensteins side project will be held back until "Got The Magic" drops out of the top 30 in the contemporary jazz charts?\

I do.....but I can't wait to hear Jay's side project...."Goodbye Porkpie Hat" was stupendous at the three concerts I caught last year.


Peace!
Paul

hadn't seen this thread (only postings over past 10 days show) until today.
man, you guys are harsh.
Not that Got the Magic is that great, but it is very good. Some of you guys seem to have the impressiong that SG ought to stick to one format -- meaning no vocals. I admit, when I first heard the vocal tracks on Dreams Beyond Control, I was uneasy. But they worked. One thing that has always attracted me to a band, any band, is diversity. You spend 20 years doing the same thing, you get boring. I agree that they shouldn't get carried away with the singing ... and if they're gonna do it, get some JAZZ singers. Still, a mix is good business and, contrary to some rigid points of view, good listening.

Paul, it's funny you should mention that. While I was listening to "Best Of-First 10 Years" cd this morning I had a thought. Some of the rookie listeners seem to think that Got The Magic is a newer sound for the band but after listening to Freetime, Morning Dance and Catching The Sun....these songs would fit right in on Got The Magic. So it makes me want to wonder is merely the airplay that is making Got The Magic do so well in the charts? It shouldn't work that way. I would bet that no matter how successful Got The Magic continues to be, the band has far too much integrity to make the same kind of record again for commercial success alone. I think SG has always been quality over quantity.

Are you guys surprised there aren't any real scorchers on Got The Magic. As beautiful as the music and arrangements are on the cd, to my untrained ear, Got The Magic doesn't seem to have the intricate, complex playing that previous releases have had. Watch them prove me wrong when they come to Chicago Feb.19 and put some outrageous spins on a couple of the tunes. For the next release, I hope for a few more musically intense pieces. Hell, if I heard Birks Law or Whitewater on the radio, I'd probably drive off the road.

Right you are, Steve.
When I saw them in 92, they did 5 tracks off "Three Wishes," but "Whitewater" wasn't one of them. But that song is soooooooo cool.
The best comparison I can make of pieces like that performed live was when I saw them at Stateline, Nev. in '87 and they did "Sweet and Savvy." I imagine "Birk's Law" would be just as awesome.

Why is it that everyone gets so upset over a few vocal tracks on a Spyro Gyra Cd. Would you be equally upset if they backed up a smooth jazz singer as the Yellowjackets have done a number of times? The question should not be, why are there vocals on any bands cd. The question should be are the vocals in tune with the band and are they jazz at all. I thought the two on Dreams Beyond Control met both. They sounded more like Jay said let us try something new and created a vocal sound that took on the qualities of the band. Far to many smooth jazz players seem to stick in vocals just to have the required two vocals on every cd. That does seem to me to be on the decline and that is a good thing. But I would not want us to take out the greatest instrument of all, the human voice, out of jazz. Maybe instrumental players with the stature of Jay Beckenstein and Russ Freemen can make the vocal a strong part of smooth jazz without it taking away from their own music.

ditto to what Dave said ... minus the word "smooth"

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Woody

Dave . . .

I have no problem with vocals with the band and wonder if we will see increased use of Julio Fernandez in this area. I really like Basia as a singer and her contribution to "Got the Magic." I would love to see someone like Manhattan Transfer's Janis Siegel participate in a future Spyro Gyra CD.

The Yellowjackets have used vocals on some of their releases very effectively. We've heard Bobby McFerron, Michael Franks, Kurt Elling, the group Take 6, and others on their releases. The Pat Metheny Group's use of "wordless" vocals (Pedro Aznar, David Blamires & Mark Ledford) has always hit a responsive chord with me as well.

I think that a lot of jazz fans simply prefer instrumental music for the most part and often fear the use of vocals is for commercial reasons only and not art. This is where one has to differentiate.

In a recent Jazziz magazine interview with smooth music icon, Paul Brown, he was asked about brainstorming for an artist's new record. His answer was that the first order of business had to be about who would be doing the vocals and how many to include. Perhaps this approach would suggest a "commercial" approach that I think is what concerns many music fans and artists alike. This is just my opinion though.

It not the vocals....it's the style of the vocals I objected to initially.

Peace!
Paul

It not the vocals....it's the style of the vocals I objected to initially.

Peace!
Paul

I have to admit that, over the months, my position has changed a bit reguarding some of the vocal performances on "Got The Magic"...and I didn't intend to be harsh, at any rate, if that's the way my early impressions came off.
Matter of fact, said I liked the record as a whole even from the beginning....said that there were many more songs I loved than tracks that didn't grab me. And in fact, the tune with Basia, "Springtime Laughter" has grown on me so much, that I keep hoping to hear the track get some crossover airplay, cuz it deserves it. "Teardrops" really benefited from repeated listenings, to the point where I think it would make a great live tune...just imagining Julio extending that closing fade out guitar solo...well I think it'd be a natural in the live setting.
I didn't like the title track all that much when I heard the record, but Julio and the band turned it into such a rave-up in concert that(especially live)that track has moved up, too.
For me, it's not vocal performances, per se, that I am critical of...heck, "De La Luz" is in my personal top 5 of all time when it comes to ranking Spyro tracks. I love the scat vocal performance on "Sierra"(the one that Julio integrates into "Breathless(Julio's Dream Version)".
It's a question of personal taste ultimately. The last five or six Pat Metheny Group records have featured vocals on the vast majority of the tracks...and I love the vocal performances by guys like Mark Ledford and Pedro Aznar.
For me it aint the vocals...it's the muscial style of the songs with vocals...pop oriented vocals on a jazz album just don't work as well for me....even tothe point of interupting the natural flow of a record. "De La Luz" and "Sierra" are perfect examples of one's that work incredibly well.
That said, I agree that it's ok, even neccessary, for Spyro Gyra to take some chances, some detours, some roads less traveled...those are frequently the tracks that turn out to be my favorites anyway. I don't ever, ever, ever want the band to lose that quality(I don't think they ever will, it's seems such a natural quality of all the band members).

"He not busy being born is busy dying"....and I love that Spyro Gyra continues( with every new release and live concert) to be busy being born.

Peace!
Paul

Dave . . .

I have no problem with vocals on the band's releases. I like Basia as a singer and liked her contribution to "Got the Magic." I'm wondering as well if Julio Fernandez will be doing more in this department in the future. I would love to see the Manhattan Transfer's Janis Siegel do something with the band.

As to the Yellowjackets' use of vocals, they have had appearances by Bobby McFerron, Kurt Elling, Michael Franks, the group Take6 and others on their releases. Most of the time they work rather well.

Well I'm really curious about listening to the songs from "Got the Magic" live. You see, It's a different thing between listening SG live and on studio. For example, Whwn i play their songs with my band (even though we're never going to sound as great as them) I can feel the difference on how much you can improvise and add colors and flavors to the songs. It's like when we play "Old San Juan" we add a lot latin and "salsa" stuff. but when we play "Heliopolis" It's more "funky" like the live version. I don't know, I think that It's true that SG'S latest production takes you back to the old days, but let's hear the live versions and compare.

Eril.

Yes, style counts. Send Me One Line, for example, is a nice song, but probably would be better on the singer's personal album with SG as backup than the other way around.
Did someone say Janis Seigel? That would be awesome as she and the Transfer did do a cover of Shaker Song. I'd also love for them to bring in Carl Anderson. I love his past work with The Rippingtons and Maynard Ferguson. Phil Perry — I'm not sure what he does elsewhere — also did a few tracks with Brandon Fields that I enjoy.

------------------
Woody

Well, we do seem to have created a bit of discusston here. All of the names mentioned bring about some intresting thought. I have the Rippingtons video on in the background and Carl Anderson just started his song. What great timing. I am inclined to agree with most of you, it is the style of song that becomes the focal point. I always became annoyed at the required 2 songs per cd thing. But at the same time there are not enough c-jazz (I will refrain from the use of "smooth) singers to be heard. A side bar for Shannon, I know much you dislike Paul Brown, but let us see what Al Jarreau brings to the table before we get to critical. A man with his experience should rise above the problem of sameness.

Jazzwriter--
I can attest to their live treatment of "Birk's Law"--they performed it at the Frederick Brown Amphitheater in Peachtree City, GA in October 1998. And it WAS awesome! The outdoor venue added a special ambience to the entire show!

Other ones I'd like to see & hear live are "Breakout" from "Breakout", "Escape Hatch" and "4MD" from "Fast Forward", "Rollercoaster" from "Three Wishes", and "Group Therapy" from "Love and Other Obsessions". (To be honest, I'd REALLY like to hear ALL OF THEM performed live, but that's probably unrealistic.)


Dreaming of week-long SG concerts, I am--

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The JazzKnight

BTW, my apologies for interrupting the flow of this thread. I posted the above reply before I read page 2.

I, personally, think that the vocals have, on the whole, added a new dimension to SG's recordings. (Of course, SG has been using vocals on their recordings for quite some time, but it was only with the release of "Dreams Beyond Control" that we heard songs with lyrics--it is the lyrical vocals that I am referring to here.)

However, I think it is important that the vocals themselves do not in any way detract from the instrumental music--after all, we are listening to the album to hear "Spyro Gyra", not "Alex Ligertwood featuring Spyro Gyra". I like the vocalists that have been suggested here, especially Al Jarreau (a long-time personal favorite) and Janis Siegel (I'm also a big ManTranFan). There is certainly the chance, however, that the vocals could start to become "overdone", and I think that this would be disastrous for our favorite band.

Another idea that might be explored is featured duets between SG members and other instrumental artists. I have had this "fantasy" (if you will excuse the expression) about a duet featuring Jay Beckenstein and David Sanborn, written by Schuuu, entitled "Beauty and the Beast", with each saxophonist's theme line exemplifying one of the title "characters", and scored in an odd meter (like 7/8 or 5/4). What do you think about such an idea?


Hoping to recover gracefully from my faux pas, I am--

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The JazzKnight

Jazznight,

You bring up and interesting point:
I'd love to see the band and individual band members do some cross polynating with other bands and musicians.
For example, Pat Metheny frequently goes outside of the Pat Metheny Group to team up with others from the jazz elite...sometimes the results are amazing.
Of course, are we ready to accept reduced production and touring from the band?
Probably not, so maybe when the band members are in their 60's and 70's....it'd continue the jazz traditon perfectly, in my opinion.

Peace!
Paul

Well people, just finished my "gig frenzy" weekend. It was a lot of fun. I feel good that the jazz scene is growing a lot here in Puerto Rico. This is the lineup we played this weekend:

Old San Juan
Heliopolis
Shangai Gumbo
Armando's Rhumba (Chick Corea)
Oye Como va (Composed by Tito Puente but we play the Santana Version)
Guiltless
A night in Tunisia (Dizzy Guilespie)
Joy Ride
Captain Karma
When evening Falls
Rubi (Gato Barbieri)
Feels so Good (You all know)
The poster's Dream (Still working on it. Didin't like it when we played it).
Well It's really tough playing the SG songs without a marimba player, but at the end it gives me more space to improvise and to create more between songs. Oh!!! also I twisted my ankle and i'm wearing a cast!!!

Wierd Huh!!!!

Let me know what you think about this line up.

Eril.

Eril, just four words:
I LOVE YOU MAN!

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Woody

My feelings about your lineup in THREE words, Eril:

"Sweet 'N' Savvy"!!


Shamelessly borrowing another SG title, I am--

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The JazzKnight

Thank you!!! I really appreciate your oppinion Guys. Funny Thing!!! When we played "The Poster's Dream" I was telling the people about when did my inspiration for this song came from, so when i told them every body was asking me about the magic island site. So maybe we'll have new members aboard.


Eril.

Well, JazzKnight, you're not alone in that area.
I'm an aspiring novelist -- would be a successful one already if it hadn't taken so many years to figure out a way to work jazz into the scenario I'm developing.
(In the real world, my 12-y.o. son, who loves pro wrestling's The Rock, lit up when he saw "It Doesn't Matter" on the Morning Dance cover.)
The first story in the series that should spin off from the story in progess will be "Awakening."
A favorite hot spot for my main characters is the Oasis Lounge. They visit a Kansas City area restaurant whose menu includes cajun delicacies and Chinese food. The name: Shanghai Gumbo. One principal, a married woman with a dirty secret, does a striptease to "No Man's Land." It could be said that she does it because she's got too much "Freetime" and eventually sacrifices everything for redemption because she's got "Nothing to Lose."

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Woody

First, to Eril...

Loved that setlist. Not just for the Spyro(natch!)but for the selections.
Also loved it for the other artists you picked(Chick, Gato, Santana version of "Como Va") You know Eril, someday before I go off the those "Islands In the Sky", I HAVE to meet you and see your band.
For Jay, Tom, Julio, Scott, and Joel, it's got to be a RUSH to see that your band and others are playing their music!
To Jazzwriter:
I think it is so cool and creative to have those songs inspire your writing. Jay says on that first, REALLY old video that the bands music is open to many interpretations!

Peace!
Paul

Paul writes:
To Jazzwriter:
I think it is so cool and creative to have those songs inspire your writing. Jay says on that first, REALLY old video that the bands music is open to many interpretations!

You have no idea how much.
Naturally, I've got an agenda.
On the one hand, music (especially that by SG) is pretty much the HEARTBEAT of my life, so I would not be GUILTLESS of being a FAIRWEATHER friend if I fail to share my DREAMS BEYOND CONTROL of a jazz-induced society. On the other hand, should my writing lead to my being in the LIMELIGHT, you can bet my written stories would become moving pictures wherein STORIES WITHOUT WORDS would be part of the soundtrack, educating the masses with a WHIRLWIND of fusion.

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Woody

In ref to previous post:
Whew!

Well, Thanks Paul and to everyone. You see It's a very wonderful experience to have the opportunity to play the music you grew up with. Also it teaches you that nothing is impossible and / or difficult if you just try with your heart and soul. Believe me, I never ever thought I could meet Tom Schuman and take a picture with him. Also I never imagined myself able to play SG music in clubs and pubs in PR. It's quite an experience.

To Paul:
I hope that one day you and the rest of the gang could come to my beautiful paradise wich I call Home, to see the band play. Wow!!! that's gonna be a goooood one!!!

Eril.

Methinks I have created a "Swamp Thing"!

I look forward to reading your stories, Woody! (That is, if you intend to make them public...)


Wondering what I have wrought, I am--

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The JazzKnight

JazzKnight, "It Doesn't Matter" what you think you've created, I've got a jillion ideas in the "Percolator." So many it makes me "Dizzy" not to be able to get them to paper all at once. Alas, you have shown your "Stripes," so please don't feel like a "Serpent in Paradise" that our "Conversations" have progressed (stooped?) to this level. I'm "Taking the Plunge" into this writing thing, and fully intend to "Breakout" into the public. There are "No Limits" to how far we can get carried away, so I'll stop before I reach (pardon the spelling) the "Tower of Babble."


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Woody

A few people might view these posts and declare that some of the posters have little too much "FREETIME".

I would not be one of them. I think the intigration of song titles into posts is hilarious...but the band better come up with a bunch more...there are only about 200-220 song titles... kind of limits the vocab.

Peace!
Paul