Recently it has seemed to me as if the band has gradually started to introduce some new elements into their music. The Mt. Gretna concert I attended seemed to further this idea.

Julio Fernandez obviously has some vocal skills that bring a very nice Latin flavor to the band's programs. Yet he possesses "scat" vocal ability as well and we were given a taste of this ability via his treatment of the composition "Breathless" at this concert.

Do any of the rest of you who have seen the band recently feel as if we are being "probed" and "tested" about the use of more vocals and their acceptance? How would you feel about more vocal work written into the band's repertoire?

Phil,

I am sure about one thing:

It's dangerous to assume that the reason Spyro Gyra performed two songs that incorporated vocals at the recent Spyro concert you attended was due to the band wanting to "probe" and/or "test" the audience for acceptance.
That would bring with it an assumption that the band really doesn't dig vocal contributions to it's diverse cannon.
Until I hear otherwise from one of the band members, I believe that the band, if all band members feel comfortable with a composition(instrumental or not)then they will add it to the already diverse Spyro Gyra cannon. I will say that the band members probably compose many instumental pieces that do not make the cd's simply due to a lack of room...and some get vetoed if they are not deemed strong enough, and others are shot down because they may NOT fit into Spyro's overall vision(which seems to be growing in scope every year).
And, for the '96 and '97 tours, Julio Fernandez' "De La Luz" was a staple in the sets(and a highlight). So putting two vocal oriented songs in the set(especially since the 1998 set list had none)for the 1999 tour does not seem to indicate a major shift in the bands instrumental only(with a few detours)approach.

"Love And Other Obsessions" and "Dreams Beyond Control" featured two vocal performances each, and except for the occasional one off appearance by Alex Ligertwood at shows during those tours, the band didn't incorporate vocals in the live setting.

I think, more than anything else, it's probably in keeping with the bands "try new things to keep growing, even it means an occassional failure" approach.

After all, Dylan has continued to experiment even as he approaches 60, and he has had his share of only average songs and records. But people don't dwell on the relative failures...they just marvel at the transcendent songs and records. It's as if he needs to write average songs and records in order to get to the incredible one.

Same thing may apply for Spyro Gyra.

Peace!
Paul

Phil,

I am sure about one thing:

It's dangerous to assume that the reason Spyro Gyra performed two songs that incorporated vocals at the recent Spyro concert you attended was due to the band wanting to "probe" and/or "test" the audience for acceptance.
That would bring with it an assumption that the band really doesn't dig vocal contributions to it's diverse cannon.
Until I hear otherwise from one of the band members, I believe that the band, if all band members feel comfortable with a composition(instrumental or not)then they will add it to the already diverse Spyro Gyra cannon. I will say that the band members probably compose many instumental pieces that do not make the cd's simply due to a lack of room...and some get vetoed if they are not deemed strong enough, and others are shot down because they may NOT fit into Spyro's overall vision(which seems to be growing in scope every year).
And, for the '96 and '97 tours, Julio Fernandez' "De La Luz" was a staple in the sets(and a highlight). So putting two vocal oriented songs in the set(especially since the 1998 set list had none)for the 1999 tour does not seem to indicate a major shift in the bands instrumental only(with a few detours)approach.

"Love And Other Obsessions" and "Dreams Beyond Control" featured two vocal performances each, and except for the occasional one off appearance by Alex Ligertwood at shows during those tours, the band didn't incorporate vocals in the live setting.

I think, more than anything else, it's probably in keeping with the bands "try new things to keep growing, even it means an occassional failure" approach.

After all, Dylan has continued to experiment even as he approaches 60, and he has had his share of only average songs and records. But people don't dwell on the relative failures...they just marvel at the transcendent songs and records. It's as if he needs to write average songs and records in order to get to the incredible one.

Same thing may apply for Spyro Gyra.

Peace!
Paul

Paul . . .

I was wondering why your posts are often "doubled?" Is it the old "I'm not sure if it went through so I'll send it again" thing?

I've intended to ask you this before since it happens a lot.

As to the "vocals" comments, I know that the band has always thrived on original material, yet recently guys like Scott Krietzer appear to have talents in writing lyrics and have contributed to the band's recent efforts.

A lot of people posting about Spyro (yourself included) have voiced opinions about vocals. And many with a preference for instrumental music have viewed their inclusion negatively.

I understand that Julio Fernandez did vocal work prior to his stint with the band. With his Latin flair and the way audiences respond to his stage presence, plus the obvious success of "De La Luz," I thought he would add some dimension to the band's repertoire.

Agree or not?

Phil,

First, I agree with your comment about Julio Fernandez. The diversity of the bands attack has long been one of the qualities that sets them apart from all the other contemporary jazz bands. The overall "democratic" approach(as opposed to bands that have one instrument or writer dominate so fully). When Dave Samuels became a studio only member, the(live) band lost one of it's many voices, and lost a bit of their diversity.
Adding Julio's vocal talents gives them back that diversity(albeit in a different manner).

Personally, I prefer the "wordless vocal" approach, i.e. "De La Luz" and the wordless vocal style of Pedro Aznar formerly witht the Pat Metheny Group.

That said, even though I didn't care too much for the "worded" vocal stuff on "Got The Magic", keeping with another Spyro trademark, even that stuff came off markedly better in the live setting. I actually enjoyed Julio's "Got The Magic" when I saw it in concert. ALMOST went up to him and aplolgized after the shows. ALMOST.

Again, if they do include vocals on future releases and tours, I'd still prefer the style he uses on De La Luz. And I'd say it's a safe bet that future records and tours will include a song or two featuring vocals...I don't ever see them becoming a PRIMARILY vocal band...unless they recruited Aznar!

As for the double posts...it's a software problem...the cmptr appears to either "freeze up" or not take the post...I double click, and it turns out it HAS accepted the forst one, and by then it's too late. I am working with relatively antinquated machinery.

Peace!
Paul

Phil,

First, I agree with your comment about Julio Fernandez. The diversity of the bands attack has long been one of the qualities that sets them apart from all the other contemporary jazz bands. The overall "democratic" approach(as opposed to bands that have one instrument or writer dominate so fully). When Dave Samuels became a studio only member, the(live) band lost one of it's many voices, and lost a bit of their diversity.
Adding Julio's vocal talents gives them back that diversity(albeit in a different manner).

Personally, I prefer the "wordless vocal" approach, i.e. "De La Luz" and the wordless vocal style of Pedro Aznar formerly witht the Pat Metheny Group.

That said, even though I didn't care too much for the "worded" vocal stuff on "Got The Magic", keeping with another Spyro trademark, even that stuff came off markedly better in the live setting. I actually enjoyed Julio's "Got The Magic" when I saw it in concert. ALMOST went up to him and aplolgized after the shows. ALMOST.

Again, if they do include vocals on future releases and tours, I'd still prefer the style he uses on De La Luz. And I'd say it's a safe bet that future records and tours will include a song or two featuring vocals...I don't ever see them becoming a PRIMARILY vocal band...unless they recruited Aznar!

As for the double posts...it's a software problem...the cmptr appears to either "freeze up" or not take the post...I double click, and it turns out it HAS accepted the forst one, and by then it's too late. I am working with relatively antinquated machinery.

Peace!
Paul

Shocker

I was playing Love and Other Obsessions today. For the first time in, oh, about 15 or 20 passes, I let every song play.
Has my *cough* maturation progressed so much that I no longer find these vocals offensive? Or am I coming around to realize that I've been practicing a double standard - allowing for R&B vocals with The Rippingtons or Fourplay, but rejecting them with Spyro Gyra.

Yes...I would say so!!

Either that, or the music grew on you!

I have had the same thing happen to me!

Though not anywhere close to my fave mode of expression by the band, the four vocal cuts on the "Dreams" and "Love" releases HAVE grown on me.

And that Basia performance on "Springtime Laughter" on GOT THE MAGIC, I like that one quite alot.
Peace!
Paul

Topics like these are the reason that i keep coming back!!!

I don't know!!! i support both Paul's and Phil's points of view, but taking it to a musician's point of view i love Julio's work and Ligertwood's work but that's it. I think that the vocals takes a big "chunk" out of Julio and Tom's playing and all the interesting stuff that they do "behind". Just my oppinion

Well, I always take pleasure that my ex-wife (Wondress) sang backup on a couple of Spyro Gyra cd's. She recorded the actual demos by Scott Kreitzer.('Let's Say Goodbye' and 'Fine Time To Explain') Unfortunately, her leads were replaced by Denise Williams on one tune and an unknown singer on another. She also sang leads on a tune called 'You've Changed' which was re-recorded as an instrumental by Andy Snitzer.

I don't know if I'd go so far as to say they've grown on me. I've always felt that Fine Time to Explain was a nice song - IF I'd heard it on anything other than a Spyro Gyra album. It was just that mental block of having a straight, R&B vocal on an otherwise jazz instrumental album.
I'm with Paul, that Julio's vocals and Alex on Dreams Beyond Control seemed more in tune to what SG was doing. Likewise, Patterns in the Rain has that Latin/raggae feel to it, so it could work on almost any contemporary jazz setting. Send Me One Line is also straight R&B, but again, I like Alex's voice there — seems much more passionate about it than the leads on Fine Time and Goodbye - and let's not forget, Jay really delivers a punch on his sax solo on Send Me One Line.
Patterns in the Rain works for me not only because I like the rhythm and the singing, but also because everybody's a player. We don't lose the concept of a jazz group the way we do on the other songs - Dave's solo and Joel's rhythm really shine on this one, not to mention Jay's solo.
I guess that's really why I didn't care for the Love & Other Obsession vocals - I don't feel the presence of Tom, Julio or Joel. Still, the barriers have come down on Fine Time to Explain - for now at least. And Let's Say Goodbye is nice background music.

I hear ya Woody. By the way, Billy Cliff sang lead on the demo of 'Fine Time.....'( I was at the studio watching and listening). And I thought his vocals on 'Serengeti' were horrible! I hated his voice then and I hate it still! I personally do not like R&B vocals on a supposed all jazz cd! I wish all these 'Smooth'(yuck)Jazz artists would just cut it out already!

Just Jazz please.................

I hear ya.
You know, if the idea is to attract new audiences by bringing in established vocalists in other popular forms - Wendy Moten, Shai, Jeffrey Osborne, etc. - is it too much to ask jazz groups to borrow a page out of Santana's playbook?
In other words, stick to the format and have those singers sing your style instead of you playing to their style.

Not long ago, Scott's woefully short daily solo was done as a high speed scat with the bass - way cool. Some of you may recall my post entitled something like, 'Scott Ambush - Spyro Gyra's latest vocal sensation.'