It's a bit disappointing to find that visitors to Magic Island don't at this point. anyway, seem adventurous enough to investigate outside the limited world of the Rippingtons.
I love the Rippingtons, but it's sad that there have been about 100 posts since this new forum opened, and about 80 of them don't venture outside the subject of the Rippingtons.

Though I dig that groups music, I hope that eventually some of that groups fans will investigate some other music.

Maybe I am expecting too much too soon...and after all, this is a bulletin board accessed through the Rippingtons home page, and perhaps fans of that group don't understand Spyro Gyra or the Pat metheny Group or other contemporary jazzers.
Perhaps they are not so much jazz fans as just fans of the Rippingtons.

Or, perhaps I am expecting too much too soon. After all this BB has only been up and running for just a short time.

My question is, after venting my disappointment so far of the fans of that fine group, is......
What is it, for you, that makes Spyro Gyra such a special band...can you put your finger on the reason they are generally considered the live band that sets the standard. What sets Spyro Gyra apart from the rest of the contemporary jazz field?

I will give just one of the reasons I have.

It is the bands natural affinity to be a different band every album, tour, and indeed every concert.

I have many mor reasons, but I will see if THIS thread gets more of response thatn the previous 3 or 4.

Peace!
Paul.

I'm beginning to think that one of the reasons for the low level of discussion here has to do with the fact that there is not a direct like to this board from the Spyro Gyra site, Rips site or other sites, unless I've somehow missed it.

Many are posting on the individual site "Guest" books. I wonder if the proper links were included whether more discussion might be forthcoming? Just a thought.

In my previous post the word "like" should be "link."

As to what sets Spyro Gyra apart from a group like the Rippingtons is not easy to pinpoint for me, though I know that I consider SG the better group.

I think the band's arrangements/writing give the kind of variety touching the Latin, R&B, Fusion and Jazz genres that simply strikes a very responsive chord with me. This comes across in "live" performances so well that I've never seen an audience fail to respond enthusiastically.

I recently saw the Rips on BET's Jazz Central Station playing a number of their best selections. They are a very good group but the music of Russ Freeman just doesn't have the "enduring" quality with me that Jay Beckenstein's group does. I have loved the Rippington concerts but feel that the band's direction since its "Live In LA" release has been subpar.

Bottom line though is that I think both these bands are in a period where they are getting less and less radio play time with the ridiculous "smooth" jazz radio format. They are not alone. the same is happening to Pat Metheny and other truly great music groups who refuse to surrender their musical creativity to the terrible Broadcast Architecture methods of determining for most smooth stations what can or cannot be played.

I hope that these groups can survive this period of musical degradation.

Phil,

Good to hear from you.

Boy was I ever in a bad mood yeasterday! I had a blowup with my girlfriend over a couple of missed connections, and in reading my frustration laden intro to my topic I transfered just a bit(!) of that into the intro.

I wanted to make a comment about the ammount of airplay that Spyro, Pat Metheny Group, and the Rippingtons are receiving.

In Southern California, perhaps because the group is based out of LA, and perhaps that they were gaining popularity just as the smooth jazz format was gaining in popularity, the Rippingtons aren't suffering from a lack of airplay from our local station, 94.7 KTWV(The Wave).

They do suffer from the effect that affects Spyro and PMG....the pidegeonholing of the bands identity by the playlist including only the mellowist of tracks. The station includes several Rippingtons tracks, but, as a friend of mine, who is a huge Ripps fans, the problem is, it is the same several tracks over and over.

If you DO hear a Spyro Gyra track, it is either "Ariana" or the original version of "Morning Dance", frustrating for me, cuz while I love the songs, you tend to get tired of ANYTHING if you do, or hear it over and over exclusively.

The other problem is that potential fans of the band who maybe don't find that much to like in those two tracks, don't get to hear the other wide variety of tracks that Spyro has in it's catalouge that just MIGHT make them take notice.

PMG suffers from the same pidegeonholing...I hear "Last Train Home" "Chris", and once in awhile, "Slip Away" though it's been a couple of years since I heard that one.

I was a little kid when FM radio was in it's infancy and playlists and listener focus groups did not exist, and as a result, a wide ammount of styles and tempos easily co-existed...DJ's were encouraged, and complemented for "turning people on" to an unknown band, or an unknown track by an already known band. Sadly, with focus groups and playlists, this never happens these days in any style of music.

At the very least I wish the programmers of the smooth outlets(which, according to R & R Magaizine grew from 79 stations to over 100 across the USA from '97 to 98), would set aside an hour a day, or even an hour a week to "turn people on" to alternate tracks of artists!

I wonder, since Spyro is based out of New York, and PMG unless I'm wrong grew out of a meeting between Metheny and Mays in Boston, if those bands garner more radio airplay in those cities?

Meanwhile, I will try to be more patient in waiting for this Paul/Phil Discussion Forum eventually gets taken over by Spyro Gyra fans who hear about it "through the grapevine"!!!

Peace!
Paul

P.S. I agree with your points about Spyro's dynamic live elements!

Hey Paul!

I'm partially guilty of what you accused...I've posted to the Rips' BB numerous times, but only to this one once, I think. No particular reason--Rips' are my faves, but I'm a big fusion/contemp. Jazz/whatever fan, SG included. I only own one of their discs....stories w/o words....but based on your rave reviews, I'm going to try and expand my collection, and check out a show next time they come to Dallas. Any recommendations for Discs?

Now, on to the "Smooth Jazz" format...I TOTALLY agree with all your observations. I had the good fortune to get interested in Jazz while living in Central FL. They are fortunate to have what I still consider to be the best Jazz station I've come across anywhere I've visited or lived (4 major markets in the last 2 years....Orlando, Boston, Pittsburgh, Dallas). WLOQ FM.(www.wloq.com)
They do (or did....) just what you mentioned....lots of variety, different artists, different songs from different albums, not just the HOT songs on the damn playlist this week. Played some Bob Marley, Jimmy Buffett, Michael Franks (a great musician, IMO, who doesn't seem to get ANY "Smooth" airplay), New York Voices, Manhattan Transfer, etc. etc. NO Whitney Houston, Mariah Carey, Celine Dion, Michael Bolton (ugh!!) Heck, I like Mariah Carey, but NOT ON MY JAZZ STATION, DAMN IT!! I truly share your frustration. I can't wait for the station here in Dallas to get their website online again so I can send a message to this same effect.

I understand their goal is to make advertising revenues by increasing listenership and ratings share, but I feel like they're alienating their core audience by playing this crap. Not only playing it, but OVER and OVER. It's pretty sad when you can set your watch to when a given Jazz song will be played, just like all the "carbon copy" Pop stations. The benefit of such a format, I always felt, was that it was unnecessary to have such repetitive playlists....there is SO MUCH music out there, and it doesn't seem to get dated like so much pop does. Even the older stuff still has appeal.

Anyway, I've raved enough. Hope this comes across cohesively. Happy listening.

Scott

BTW, I haven't been to NY in a few years, but I never noticed any increase in the frequency of variety of Metheny/Mays music in Boston (my hometown).

"frequency of variety "

oops...that should have read "frequency or variety".

Oh, board admin...what about a spell checker??? =)

Here Here, Guys you've all hit this right on the head. There is something else to consider as well. "Broadcast Architecture" this is a service that handles a substantial percentage of radio stations programming for this NAC/SJ format. If you don't conform they don't play you! By the way I love Spyro!
This band hasn't been around for over 20 years for nothing.

And a spell checker would rock!






------------------
Nick Sodano

Howdy,
This is my first post at MagicIsland. I think Phil pounded the nail when he said the Guest Book links are limiting the responses at this BB. I always thought the GBs were a place for signing in just to show I had been to a particular website. A link to MagicIsland with text to indicate the link takes you to a BB where you can talk jazz with jazz lovers and musicians should do the trick.
I started seriously listening to jazz a couple years ago when KSKX (this is not a plug) came on the air in Colorado Springs. My first jazz CD purchases were Dave Koz's first three releases. Since then I've bought CDs from saxmen David Sanborn, Gato Barbieri, and most recently Jeff Kashiwa. Next I began to really appreciate the music of Acoustic Alchemy and Russ Freeman's 12-string performances with the Ripps is what drew me to them.
I've been a Ripps fan for about six months, ever since my wife and I saw them in concert here in Colorado Springs last Sept. What really juiced my jeans at the concert was Steve Reid's performance on percussion. He's a wild man on stage! Shortly after the concert I rediscovered Spyro Gyra.
I say rediscovered because when I bought Road Scholars late last year, many of the cuts were very familiar. Since then I have purchased the 20/20 and Best of CDs. I just came to this BB from SpyroGyra.com and was disappointed at the Tour Dates section of the website. The local jazz station KSKX (still not a plug) has been announcing for a week Spyro Gyra will be here in Colorado Springs on April 9 and the website shows no dates in April for here or anywhere else. I will still buy my tickets on Monday.
What sets Spyro Gyra apart from the rest? Spyro Gyra's musicians have the superb ability to masterfully blend sax, drums, guitar, bass, and keyboards to play the best jazz on the planet. And as Nick says, they have been doing it for over 20 years.
Norm Skelly

testing....

(very important!)




[This message has been edited by dipix (edited 02-10-99).]

Nick,

You struck a nerve when you mentioned Broadcast Architecture. They are evil, and must be stopped. They're turning "Smooth Jazz" into "snooze jazz"!!

More ranting to come . . .

Scott, Whiskey,Dipix,,DJil, and Phil,

Good posts all, and many great points have been brought up.
Scott, I've read your posts over on the Ripps page, and they've always been VERY cohesive, this page for Spyro was just as cohesive. Look forward to discussing more with you.
Whiskey J, thanks for mentioning your local jazz station, I always keep a list of cities and stations in case I'm ever passing through. Our local stations in SOCAL are 88.1(traditional), 88.5(mix of contemporary, fusion,smooth, and the rare traditional), and 94.7 KTWV-The Wave(Smooth jazz, pop vocals).
You're answer to my thread question was a model of economy...explained some of my feelings about Spyro very concisely.

Dipix, good post, I appreciate your explanation about why at this early point we don't have the links that will come inthe future.
Didn't really need your conclusions that some people are never satisfied, ect...
To a degree that is true...it's human nature to want things better and improved.
The topics and subjects, as long as they have ahint of a link to music, should be a wide one. Don't attempt to tell us what our discussions should be about or what our topics should be limited to. Unless someone starts wanting to talk about deviant sexual practices or some such nonsense. Send em to another website!
D.Jiley...would love to hear some of your "rants"....sometimes, "rants" initiate lively disussions!!

Nick, glad to known you are equally enthusiastic about both Spyro and Ripps music...I can see Russ being around and making great music when he celebrates the Ripps 20th anniv about 9 years hence! I doubt Russ will want to do anything but make music...it is so obviously in his BLOOD. As Dylan has said, "What else would I do, go meditate on a mountain or something?!?!?"

My hope is that some intelligent radio programmer reads our suggestions that they at least TRY to play a wider selection of Spyro and Ripps selections, as well as other bands...even if it it limited to a one-hour program every night. Call it "Alternate Tracks" or something!

Meanwhile enjoy jazz!

Oh, last thought...in answer to the question about a starting point for fleshing out your Spyro collection...
1)Heart Of The Night
2)Rites Of Summer
3)Alternating Currents

All very consistent from track one to the last track.
Oh RUN OUT AND PICK UP "ROAD SCHOLARS"...it may very well be the best yet...the band REALLY stretch out on this one

Phil, you fill in the rest.


Peace!
Paul.

Dipix . . .

Not sure who you are referring to but I believe I was the first to suggest a direct link from the other pages. Prior to responding to Paul's comments I did e-mail Magic Island with the recommendation. So I'm not sure why you are so uptight. The site is one of the best laid out I've seen and I have passed on the address to others in hopes of furthering more discussion.

And now a little more about "Broadcast Architecture . . .

One of the real problems for groups like Spyro, Pat Metheny and others is that they are required to decide whether to put songs on their releases that meet the radio format criteria. Pat Metheny included the song "Follow Me" for airplay on his latest release "Imaginary Day." It's also nominated in the "Best Pop Instrumental" category for a Grammy. But I read a recent interview with Metheny where he pointed out another major problem that is created for his group in complying with airplay requirements.

He says that now his band is booked on tour and his audience is often made up of people who bought tickets expecting to hear an entire concert featuring "Follow Me" type music. If you've had the pleasure of hearing the complete "Imaginary Day" release you know that it's another album where the PMG is "stretching" the jazz envelope. But due to the BA format the band's audiences now are often not as responsive to PMG music. So complying to BA is a mixed bag that really is hurting the legitimate music efforts of this group.

I went to see the great Yellowjackets in concert at Glenside, PA's Keswick Theater, a place where this group has always played to "sold out" audiences. On this night in October 1998, the Keswick was only half full. I was stunned. Turns out that the reason for this is that the local smooth jazz station had not received the BA playlist update about the group's latest "Club Nocturne" release. Due to this they did not promote the concert date or the release. Hence for the first time the YJ's had a small audience. If this isn't pathetic I don't know what is.

Sorry for the long post.

Phil,

Your post about that maddening Broadcast Arch thing was a great one.
The only thing I'll add is that maddening aspect(and at first it was very hard to believe)that if a song does not have the(what BA deems)correct "intro", it has no chance of airplay. Imagine things being so regimented that the first 30 seconds of a song should be it's most important component!

BY THE WAY, SOMEONE WHO IS A BUDDING SPYRO-ITE ASKED FOR A STARTING POINT TO FILL IN HIS SPYRO CD COLLECTION, WHICH NOW CONSISTS OF ONLY "STORIES WITHOUT WORDS". I CHIMED IN WITH THREE OR FOUR,

PHIL, I WAS HOPING YOUD ADD A FEW SUGGESTIONS FOR THAT FANS CONSIDERATION!

Thanks!
Peace!
Paul!

Sorry for the oversight Paul.

I'd add that I really like:

1. Dreams Beyond Control
2. Three Wishes
3. Access All Areas

Just a (not so) quick not on the link thing:

First of all, of course this forum would be more popular if there was a direct link from SG's official site. I know that has to be a popular page.

Second, the few that even know of the existence of this whole MagicIsland forum are because to those who check the Ripp's Guestbook. I visit the Ripps page at least once every other day, and I hardly ever go to the guestbook (mainly due to the fact that a majority of the submissions their are directed to the Rippingtons, who probably never read the guestbook anyway). And since the Ripp's page is updated rarely too, I had no idea this forum was here until I just happen to want to check out the guestbook, that's probably been here for a month. I know the webmasters don't have much time, but heck... how long could it take to add a link to the groups' home sites?

I guess if we're all patient enough, all those people that visit Ripps and SG sites will some day discover this forum, and the discussions will be unlimited!

Jader,

I think that you are correct in your assertion that eventually, "word will get around".

I feel really stupid for an earlier rant when I think this page was only about two weeks old!!! I laugh at myself now for doing that!!

And, even though it's STILL in it's infacy(and will be for some time), this page is ALREADY growing in contributors!

Peace!
Paul.

i agree with everyone about the smooth jazz crap getting played on radio..sg should be one of the top bands getting air time..stations should appreciate the great music sg has...groups like them dont come around too often...btw the sg webpage now has a direct link here..i used it...

------------------
Don't be so open-minded your brain falls out.

I think It's totally cool that you can buy almost all the Spyro CD's Right from the official Spyro Site and that Jay will autograph them. What a great way to add to your collection, the prices are awesome. You can also sample the sounds before you buy it, just click on the CD icon to be taken to more info. about each CD. BTW, the site process' secure transactions.

www.spyrogyra.com/

follow the merchandise link

[This message has been edited by dipix (edited 02-17-99).]

Dipix,

Thanks!!!

Now just tell me EXACTLY when I can click on that little blue spyro gyra thingy to add the new record to my collection!!

Thanks again!!

I was listening to many of the Spyro Gyra cuts from different records(while making a mixed Spyro Gyra tape for my brother the other night), and I was stuck by the fact that the band is one of the only bands that I know of where EVERY band member contributes to the composing....I really admire Jay Beckenstein's democratic approach to his band...he utilizes every band member to their fullest potential, and allows them so much room for personal expression!! What A BAND!

Peace!
Paul

I've always liked the fact that Spyro Gyra is a jazz band that plays with a rock bands intensity!
Peace!
Paul

Came onto an interesting short article about Spyro Gyra at one of our local book stores. It dealt with the successful longevity of the band in the rapidly-changing world of music.

The writer commented that Spyro's durability has been tested a great deal during the '80s and '90s. As an "instrumental" group faced with surviving in a field placing increased emphasis on vocal music, the band has maintained its audience by doing extensive touring. Staying in touch with its audience through its wonderful "live" concerts has been Spyro's way of succeeding in keeping its fans and gaining new ones.

I had never thought of it that way before and it does explain why SG spends so much time on the road. The writer felt it was brilliant strategy by leader Jay Beckenstein in view of the difficulty for jazz musicians these days. Thought you all might appreciate this brief insight.

When it comes to what "sets this band apart" from many others, I forgot to mention something I consider significant since it comes from the Keswick theater management source about artists who play the theater.

They have repeatedly stated that Spyro Gyra's "live" shows set the "standard" by which all other artists/groups appearing there are judged.

Enough said, don't you think?